To think that too many people rely on Tax Credits?

[workhardplayhard]

Reading many of the threads on Mumsnet it seems that a large proportion of contributors rely on Tax Credits to top up their incomes.

I don't know anyone who claims Tax Credits IRL but if I did I don't think it would change my opinion - I think people should be fully responsible for providing for their own offspring without any benefits.

I have stated on a previous thread that I DO believe that people should get some assistance if their circumstances change ( Redundancy/Ill Health) but only for a set period.

I don't think the government should pay for people to have multiple children that they can ill afford to provide for.

I would be interested to hear other views.

I wish we didn't have to, but no fucker will give me a job.

But there's the problem OP - he's paid tax for 30 years...It's not a savings policy. You don't get out what you pay in.

I'm assuming he's had treatment on the NHS.

If I'm right - he'll have had care from people like me (Occupational Therapist) who have turned up at the hospital, paid for my children to be in childcare, and done a damn good job of making sure he gets back onto his feet.

I paid my way through uni to be qualified, and am proud this is the case. For the short time my children are under 5 i have had a cut in earnings.

TC make up some of the shortfall. In 4 years time I'll be working full time again (and still paying for childcare around my job ) but unlikely to be claiming.

Is this OK with you?

oh seriously fuck off!

I have just gone back to work part time (20 hours) and i earn £7540 per annum.

OH works 40 hour week and he earns £16,500 per annum.

LO goes to a childminder on the days i work. without tax credits i wouldnt be able to work as we wouldnt be able to afford her childcare, and probably wouldnt be able to afford much food.

Just out of interest how would you advise that we support ourselves without any help from tax credits??

Stase My point was that before these existed low wage earners still managed to have kids - they found a way, albeit a hard one.

I think the problem is that in the past generations our cost of living has gone up, because our expectations of what basic living consists of has changed. DH never had Sky TV or the latest trainers or a room of his own etc. but then none of his friends did either. Now everyone has those things and it's therefore hard to imagine life without them and seen as a necessity. You're seen as short-changing your kids if you don't have them. It's harder now to say no to these extras because the benefits culture has created the ability to afford them.

The government is treating my family like a fucking cashpoint. They're taking £130 a month from us with the WTC and CB. DH has had his pay frozen for the next 5 years whilst his company tries to make back the money they lost in the recession. DH's income tax will increase, we assume. So yes, we DO need the money that we get in WTC. It will be missed. And FWIW, whilst we are not living in poverty, nor are we living like royalty. One car, one small holiday per year, one fortnightly food shop in Asda with a budget of £120. And that's just us. People worse off than us will be losing it, I'm sure.

We never had heating or a bathroom as kids, should we go back to that ?

oh benefits culture ...full house

northergirl41 i was one of those kids who was brought up by a low wage earner.

I would never ever wish those days back on anyone and I don't get tax credits.

I am not yet on mat leave and don't really understand tax credits but am i not right in thinking that they are essentially, in theory, people getting some of the income tax they have already paid to the government back.

In which case what IS the point? Surely we should just have a lower income tax band? or just have more tax-free allowance before income tax kicks in?

I don't judge anybody for being on them or not being on them, but i don't understand it. at all.

I love these debates started by people who think they're oh-so superior and terribly clever but undermine their purported intellignecy by not recognising that if any of their inane right wing Daily Mail endorsed suggestions (limiting the amount of time people can claim benefits / lone parents are forced into work when benefits stop) the negative effects on society as a whole would be catastrophic.

There will always be (a few) people who will take advatage of the benefits system, and no, maybe it isn't fair that you pay higher rate tax and have nothing whilst your neighbour is living in a six bedroom house with five flat screens and a brand new car, but life isn't fair, and I'd rather live in a society where the government will provide even the thinnest safety net, than one which won't, even if that means 1 person in 10000 takes the piss.

So what is the answer, shall we put up the minimum wage and put many small companies out of business and the larger ones move elsewhere.

Shall we make people who earn less than £40k wear chastity belts.

Shall we create a system that means people cannot afford to work.

Shall we sit smug in our ivory towers judging anyone who earns less than us.

I believe the cost of living has gone up because house prices have gone up so much

I also believe this is because retired people are more likely to live in houses with more bedrooms than they need. In generations past they will have moved in with their children, or into a smaller place.

As the family sized houses are occupied, not filled by those without kids, they come onto the market less often and therefore cost more.

Don't get me started on holiday homes or second houses...

Perhaps there should be tax on spare bedrooms (perhaps we could be allowed one in case our MIL needs to live with us one day )

Go on OP, admit this is another topic for the Daily Shit Mail to claim they researched, and came out with xxx conclusion.

Bollocks. Reindeer bollocks

Northerngirl, the cost of living has gone up because the cost of actually living has gone up - not the luxuries like Sky, but the essentials. As a percentage of household income, things like rent, electricity, gas, water and food all cost more. Very little to do with lifestyle, much more to do with inflation.

There's a separate problem about people buying things they don't need, usually on credit and paying extortionate interest rates because they don't understand that paying £5 a week for their massive flat screen telly for all eternity doesn't actually make it a good deal. There's a job to do there educating people.

But the bottom line is that the essentials are pretty damn expensive these days and as ButterflyEffect said, people do tend to see the apst through rose-tinted glasses.

I see it as a bit of help (and not much really) to afford to stay in my career until the kids are at school. If I stop working from the birth of the first until the second starts school (about 7-8 years) I'd never get back to where I am now, which is in a not very well paid job that I love, is worthwhile and that I am good at. I'll pay more into the big pot in the long run if I can continue to work now.

It really is bugger all anyway, much less than my monthly contributions in, so why are people so begrudging of it. Short-sighted too.

I suppose it comes down to whether you consider yourself part of society, or an individual.

I think WikiSpeaks summed it up tbh. How can people not see the sense in that!?!?

I would like to see more of my wages than receive tax credits. i.e pay less income tax. That would be great as I will lose all CB and TC when DD finishes school and I will miss them as I live on it atm. Will have to work more hours.

Ah, yes, everyone's expectations have become so unrealistic.

How dare people on low wages aspire to a bathroom of their own with a flushing toilet and running water indoors!?

I never had SkyTV, either, growing up. Whaddya know? Because it didn't fucking exist.

The world has actually moved on in the past 40 years!

It's not the same place!

Imagine that?

Now you see why a lot of old people don't see the need to update their home and they try to sell it and it's stuck in the past?

That's because they are, too.

And so are you if you don't get a clue that this isn't 20 years ago.

It's not Africa, either, or Haiti. So those comparisons are just as fucking useless.

Oh I love middle class rants, they're so amusing. I and my dp have to claim tax credits and yes he works full time, but I don't.

However, I will not go into my life story as it's none of the OP's business as to why we need to claim. And yes I am about to have another child BUT he will be my second and last for the very reason that I refuse to have any more because we cannot afford it.

And yes I do hope to work again in the near future and would love more than anything to have a £40k wage. However, I am not qualified for anything and now my plans to go back to uni have been put on hold indefinitely because of the increase of fees.

YABU OP because you don't know everyone's personal circumstances and it's very stupid to generalise and pigeon hole people.

However if I had to generalise about your type OP I would say you were a middle class snob who doesn't have a clue about the real world. Urgh, people like you REALLY annoy me!

I claim tax credits. Have no choice without them ds and I would be on the streets.
I just about manage to hold down a job and look after DS 3 who has ASD and ADHD. Private rent here for a small 2 bed place is the same as my wages.
You never know what is around the corner. I didn't expect to end up a single parent with a child with additional needs. However I love him dearly and he has taught me a lot and made me a better person.
Without tax credits many of the 'working poor' couldn't survive. OP are you suggesting people in low paid jobs should remain childless? I would rather be poor and claim tax credits and remain a decent individual than be a rich, ignorant person who looks down on and judges others!

Worth remembering as well that

a) there have been in work benefits (Family Credit etc) for a very long time (certainly 70s onwards, possibly earlier)

b) in the past - ie before they got sold - there were a lot more council houses. So workers in lower paid jobs tended to have low rent secure housing, not be dependent on high rent insecure private rentals. Decline in the numbers of people in council housing has been a big factor (probably the main factor) in the huge growth in Housing Benefit payouts.

c) from the 50s through to early 80s, income distribution was more equal - less to the banker/accountant = more to the dustman

d) many self employed people start up earning very little, claim tax credits for a few years, and then have a viable business and pay lots of tax. We're in that situation - I reckon the state did pretty well out of the two years of tax credits that we had as we now each pay tax/NI on our earnings, as do our employees.

Come back OP!!!! Have you got the point yet?

Responding to this with personal experience only, and would like to know what I should be doing differently to not rile the daily wailers.
Have worked hard since leaving university. Had to take time off work to recover from brain tumour, without claiming any benefits. As part of treatment was told prob make me infertile. Still, dp and I conceived 2.5 years ago to serious delight. Was still working so didn't really have to worry abt money. Shortly after dd born was made redundant and despite thorough job searching have yet to find suitable work. No way we could get by now without TC, despite living v modest lifestyle and having no debts ex mortgage. Am now 9 wks pg again, if you'd been told you could be infertile and conceived, would you not be thrilled and want to give your babes a loving if meagre lifestyle helped along by abt £200 a month in TC? Seriously, it doesn't stretch very far!