to ask why, if you think a job is so cushy, you don't actually do it?

[Serendippy]

Genuine question, although guaranteed to rile a number of you

This comes mostly from the comments about teachers/childminders. Funnily enough, I have never once heard anyone say, 'God, I paid my callout plumber a fortune, I wish I had his job'. Is this because most of us do not have any idea about plumbing? But it seems that most think they know about educating a child, so why not do it? Especially now you are given money to train asa teacher and if you already have a degree, it only takes a 9 month course to qualify? I appreciate that if you have no qualifications in place already, becoming a teacher would involve a long time on no income training, but if you would only have to do 9 months and then get loadsa money for sitting kids in front of DVDs, leaving work at 3 and swanning off on holiday for 13 weeks a year, why don't you? Same goes for childminding, if it is so easy to mind other people's children and at the same time you would save on childcare for your own, why don't you do it?

Right, who wants to throw the first punch?

Where do you work?

I currently work in a secondary school in inner London (not as a teacher, different role) and cannot imagine a more stressful job.

I can't understand, honestly, how anyone with small children can do a really good job of teaching, simply because of the amount of time you have to spend planning and marking. How does it work? Must have super human amounts of energy! City lawyers puts in less hours!

I now work at a university (as mentioned)

I work longer hours now and am part time lol (like any job is actually part time eh?)

A lot of it depends on your personality as well. If you are suited to working with adults, you are not going to be happy in a job working with 5yos. Saturday there must be some perks to your job to make you stay in it rather than returning to secondary?

Can I clarify and say I dont think the job was cushy or "easy" but it was far far easier than what I do now.

(and no i wouldnt go back as Id have to start from the bottom)

I taught A levels btw

It may appear that teachers whine a lot. IME, this is because teachers are most likely to be challenged by the general public to justify their work / pay / holidays / working conditions; generally, the 'whining' is a response to explain the actual nature of the job, rather than an unprovoked moan. Friends/ relatives of mine, in both professional and non-professional jobs, certainly moan at least as much as I did when I was teaching - but the rest of us cannot determine how justified this is because we don't really know what their job entails. Everyone thinks they know teaching.

NannyState - out of interest, how many hours a week/day do you think City Lawyers work? I'm not disputing that teachers in your school work longer hours but I'm very surprised. It's not my experience from friends who are teachers. Even with marking time, anything more than a 12 hour day would be very unusual for the teachers I know and that seems to be broadly backed up by what people have said here.

Of course, city lawyers are paid a lot more. Legal aid lawyers aren't and I'd argue that they probably work as long (if not longer) hours in more stressful conditions for less pay.

It's also a lot more competitive to become a city lawyer than a teacher. Sorry if that offends teachers but it's true. Skill set is very different as well of course.

I appreciate that teachers may be seen to whine more because they're challenged more, it's a very fair point. I just also have a lot of friends who have gone straight into teaching who don't realise that 25k+ is actually quite a lot of money and have very little to compare the overtime expectations to.

Teaching is not easy but it's certainly not the worst job out there for comparable pay. I'd consider teaching but to be honest I've tried and I'm just not that good! Teaching over hospital nursing any day for me though.

It also gets very tedious hearing that teaching is such hard work. If it is such a bind then why do it?!

Teachers do get massively long holidays. Their day is much shorter than most other jobs, and the pay is okay. Perhaps if teachers moaned less and appreciated the positive aspects of their job people wouldn't view the job as cushy.

I admire good professional teachers, but teachers that go on about the extra hours they have to do etc switch me off. In my view their organisational and teaching skills are obviously not up to scratch.

bedubabe. My BF is a city lawyer. He works far fewer hours than I did when I was teaching. Yes, he's often at the office later, but he also started later and didn't take as much work home (we were flatmates for years so I know his work patterns intimately).

I also take issue with your middle manager/pay point. My current position is middle manager. My boss left, I'm doing his job as well as mine. My colleague left, the didn't replace him, so I'm doing his job too. I'm paid over 10 grand more than I was as an experienced teacher. I was also, scarily efficient, so not subject to the excessive hours that some of my colleagues were. But even dow, doing 3 jobs, running an entire service by myself and therefore needing to be available 24/7, I still don't have anywhere near as much of the stress or the hours I had as a teacher. This thing is a doddle in comparison.

I think the problem many people have with teachers is the swan effect. They have all sat in the classroom with teachers who make the whole thing seem easy and think there can't be that much to it. What they don't see is the frantic paddling that is going on beneath the surface.

So journey when do you think report-writing, extra-curricular activities, parents evenings and planning for every single lesson happen, if not during the extra hours teachers work?

Teachers' pay has declined by a great deal in real terms over the decades. It used to be in line with other respected professions.

My best friend is a city lawyer (albeit no kids). She works 8.30am- whenever she is finished. Sometime she is out of the office mid afternoon for a meeting and then sneaks off to 'work from home'. Other days she might finish at 8pm then of straight out for dinner with clients. And of course there are the times she is working like mad until midnight. I'd say she averages a 60 hour week, sometimes more.

When I was teaching, I averaged a 9 hour day, plus 1-2 hours in the evening and a whole day at weekends on work = probably around 50-60 hours a week.

Not massively different.

I'm not saying there is a hard and fast rule re: teachers and city lawyers. I just think it's a complete misconception that teaching is a cushty job. Whenever I hear mums with young kids say they are thinking about going into teaching, I wonder if they realise how tough it can be and if they will even get through the PGCE year, to be honest.

Not to mention marking, exam entries and IEPs (individual education plans)... None of those things happen in lesson time.

My sons teacher works 8.45 til 3pm, she told me! The kids leave at 1,40pm, so they have the rest of the time to prep, then go home. And the holidays are longer here, 12 weeks in summer, as well as easter, christmas, winter half term etc.

I still wouldn't do it though!

I always wanted to be a teacher, mainly because I think knowledge is the most important gift to impart.

However, I know I couldn't teach a class of children 5 days a week.

I have one junior chorister who i teach for an hour a week (and supervise for another hour on a sunday) and that's mentally killing

There are lots of jobs I would love to do because of their money aspects, but I wouldn't be able to do them - I'm crap at what I do and my work ethic seems to be dreadful (it used to be brilliant before I became my own boss, now i'm very much of the mind, If it doesn't need doing, then it can wait)
I don't have the patience or skills or ability to do most jobs.

It's only cushy if you're an expert at it.

I just dont like the way it seems to be atbu for a teacher to say their job isnt too bad.

atbu? tabu

Hee hee serendippy

DH was a builder and is now a teacher. Both tend to be regarded as one of those jobs that other people think they could do so much better.

well, here's why people whinge at teachers.

I was working as a department manager for a cetan large supermarket.

My sister was doing cover at a local school - she is, i would say, a highly competent teacher and good at her job.

I was leaving for work at 6am or a 7am start. She would leave to be there for 8am
in order to give herself plenty of time for pre-lesson sorting out. She left school at 4pm, i left work at ...7pm usually.

then i would get home, microwave my dinner, and listen to her complain about what a shit job she had, how rubbish her pay was, how she needed 13 weeks a year holiday, how stressful it was. This for five days, then of course she had weekends off. I didn't - saturday and sunday being big trading days.

i think ultimately the point is not that I think teaching is easy - i think you need to put in effort beyond the 9-3 and a decent level of experience to be good at it - it was the total lack of acceptance from her that perhaps, teaching was challenging - true - but not the only challenging job a person can do, nor the most demanding of your free time, nor even the most stressful.

I quit the job, and a man with 20 years experience took it. He was signed off by Xmas with a nervous breakdown.

She still goes on about how stressful that teaching job was.

edgar - I know what you mean. But there must be some truth to the 'stress' thing. DH used to work 12 hour days, hard physical work, out in all weather, driving 100plus miles a day, ridiculous deadlines and all for not that much pay after expenses. He was never stressed. In his second year of teaching yr 11s and he feels under constant stress and is always tired in a way he wasn't before. Doesn't help that he is teaching children with behavioural problems I guess and that as reasonably new teacher he gets assessed a great deal. But I don't know the answer but there must be something in it I suppose.

I obviously have friends with a much lower workload for some reason - can we agree to disagree? I'm not trying to run away but our experience (of both city lawyers and teachers) clearly differs and we could go round in circles for days. :)

Slug - point taken. All I can say is the people I know certainly aren't working really long hours. Having been a teacher, you've probably got wider experience than me.

I personally think that anyone in the regions of 30k (which I think is approx a 5 year qualified teacher) shouldn't be complaining about averaging 9 hour days. Or they can complain but it's hardly unsual! If they're averaging 12 hours that's more of an issue. However, there is significantly more holiday time (even if some/a lot is needed for marking) so in some ways that salary is pro-rata'd at least a bit.

Again, teaching is not cushty (I've been debating whether it's cushy or cushty). It's also not the worst job around.

My brother quit teaching in London to become a policeman. He says its far easier and less stressful, even when he got headbutted.

I'd much rather be a plumber than do any sort of child-related job.

regions on not regions of

orm - i do think being a new teacher means you have to do much more work, and it comes les naturally - you're more likely to give yourself things to worry about.