to ask why, if you think a job is so cushy, you don't actually do it?

[Serendippy]

Genuine question, although guaranteed to rile a number of you

This comes mostly from the comments about teachers/childminders. Funnily enough, I have never once heard anyone say, 'God, I paid my callout plumber a fortune, I wish I had his job'. Is this because most of us do not have any idea about plumbing? But it seems that most think they know about educating a child, so why not do it? Especially now you are given money to train asa teacher and if you already have a degree, it only takes a 9 month course to qualify? I appreciate that if you have no qualifications in place already, becoming a teacher would involve a long time on no income training, but if you would only have to do 9 months and then get loadsa money for sitting kids in front of DVDs, leaving work at 3 and swanning off on holiday for 13 weeks a year, why don't you? Same goes for childminding, if it is so easy to mind other people's children and at the same time you would save on childcare for your own, why don't you do it?

Right, who wants to throw the first punch?

I also saw on another thread a little while ago that a holiday for a family of 4 taken during school holidays can be £100, if not £1000 more, that is why it is justifiable to take your children out of school for a holiday. But as the teacher does not have this choice, it is either no holiday or use some of that huge salery they get to go away with the hoards of other people in August but the bankers can go away in November for peanuts

serendippy one of the things that really puts me off the idea of teaching is not being able to get up for a coffee or go to the loo or have a quick chat with a colleague whenever I like (within reason obv)

Not picking on you log lady, you just made the easiest points to counter:

and teachers do get 13 weeks holiday a year - dh gets 6, he goes in/works the other 7.

and they start on a higher wage than nurses - yes.

and they don't have to work late evenings, nights or weekends - he's still marking now, he's been marking for 12 hours so far this weekend.

much cushier than nursing/midwifing/caring/policing types - he works 70 hour weeks.

He loves his job, its a real vocation to him. He loves the children, he works in a highly challenging inner city school.

He's head of a large faculty - 15 plus staff work for him. He earns about £1.75 an hour for the hours he does - I worked it out.

Serendippy, my parents were both teachers. Which is why I know I could never, ever do that job. Sure, there's the 13 weeks' holiday. Which I think my dad would manage to take around 3 weeks of in total, once he'd sorted out his department's teaching materials and curriculums for the new terms. Then, and I don't know if this is still the case, but it was in the 80s, sure you get 6 weeks 'off' in the summer, but you don't get paid in August. Which makes the summer holiday (which you're probably spending working anyway) a tad miserable.
My dad took early retirement at 55. He looked about 70. 6 months later he looked 10 years younger.
It's a bloody hard, and bloody underappreciated job. And such a vital one too. And the fact that all people seem to see is the holidays really riles me. I get all defensive of my poor old dad, who'd be working well into the night every day of the week, and then through most of his holidays, just to try to do the best for his students.

looking after or teaching other peoples children is about as hard as it gets

WillieWaggledagger if going to the loo on your own when you like, drinking a whole cup of coffee in one go and chatting to adults is your cup of coffee tea, don't recommend SAHM However, you do get the daytime TV which nearly makes up for it

Theloglady - I am a teacher. I do 7 parents' evenings a year, plus speech night, 2 open evenings, certificate presentations, school productions and concerts...the list goes on. A parents' evening starts at 6 (which means I have to be in place at 5.30 as parents always arrive early). There's no point going home in between the end of school and the start of parents' eve as I have to get all my prep for the evening done and I live too far away from school. I get to school each morning at 8am and parents' eve finishes as 8.30, so that's a 12.5 hour day right there. I teach English, so I have huge essays to mark - a set of A level coursework drafts takes me an entire weekend, working 7 hours a day. Even year 7 essays take a few hours when you've got 32 of them to mark. Then there's planning lessons and making resources, then spending an hour a night on the phone to parents as coursework deadlines approach, asking them to gently remind their offspring to hand it in on time this time...and if you're ever in work but feeling a bit ill/tired/hungover/whatever, you can't just sit quietly at your desk being a bit unproductive and knowing no-one will notice as I'd hazard a guess that some office workers can. You've got Year 9 to teach and you have to bloody do it well as those kids show no mercy.

I reckon I spend at least 50% of my holidays working, and I never have a weekend which doesn't involve at least half a day of work. I have Friday evenings off from the marking and that's it - every other night I do at least 2 hours. I love my job (I would be insane to do it if I didn't) but please don't tell me it's easy or any easier than a nurse's just because I don't do a night shift.

whydobirds you do get paid for August now, another perk!

whydobirds they do now get paid in the summer, but the salary I'm sure reflects the increased 'holiday time'

TheLogLady there are night shifts; residentials

LaurieFairy/Lurcherlover, I was going to post a similar response to TLL re dh (and LaurieFairy, as dh is an NQT, I suspect his hourly rate is far below your dh's even!). I suspect however it would make no difference whatsoever, doing nothing to change that sort of attitude.

Sucks.

30+ children in a classroom on a daily basis (of any age) sounds like my idea of hell, even if it's just 9-3 (and often it's not).

Not easy, not at all. I do think they should make the regulations to getting onto a PGCE course harder (I've seen far too many people think it was an easier route to go down as they already had a degree).

I still class teaching as one of the main professional jobs, and think it should be treated as such (rather than just another public service as seen by some). Good teachers are invaluable.

Yeah, it certainly always used to. I'd guess then that they're now paid 1/12 of their salary over 12 months then rather than 1/11 over 11 months. Which makes more sense. Just because the school's shut doesn't mean the mortgage doesn't have to be paid.

And I will effectively be doing a night shift from Sept when I return to work from mat leave...I want to come home and spend a bit of time with DS and put him to bed, which means that by the time I've done that and had my tea it'll be approaching 9pm and the marking can begin...and I'll still have to spend at least 2 hours a night doing it to keep on top of it all. Dreading it. At least shift workers go home at the end of the shift and leave the work at work.

I'm currently doing a PGCE and I have never worked so hard in my life (and I've had pretty stressful jobs). I have yet to meet a teacher who doesn't work most nights until 9pm or so, every weekend and most of the holidays. Oh, and at the end of my training as I'm restricted in the area I can work it seems there is unlikely to be a full time job. So I'm also looking into registering as a childminder as well.

Perhaps plumbing could be Plan C...

Blackeyedsusan thanks for that, I will have spidery nightmares now!

Just wanted to echo other posters in answer to TheLogLady:

I'm on a considerably lower salary now as a teacher than I was in my previous career.

I nearly always work for at least 1-2 hours per night and I rarely have a weekend that does not involve schoolwork whether it's writing reports, marking, creating resources.

Oh and of course, parent's nights, helping at extra-curricular activities, providing study help at lunchtime or after school, pupils do just expect you to give up coffee or lunch to help them.

I love teaching and I do all these things and I now do say (when someone goes on about the gfreat holidays etc.) "Oh, so you'll be joining the ranks then?" And they always reply "Oh, no way! I couldn't do it!"

I'm in school for 8.00 am latest to get resources organised, set out equipment etc (Science teacher)

I reckon I do many more hours than

OOps - forgot last bit

"many more hours than 35 per week" LOL

Theloglady - Teachers DO work late evenings, nights and weekends and they DON'T get 13 weeks holiday, the children do. There are certainly many weeks without teaching but a lot of that is spent working.

I dont know why I'm even posting here. I only came on MN for a quick break before I crack on with the CPs, IEPs and ARs I'm working on. I'm knackered and want to go to bed but have to work. That'll be another 70 hour week then. I do it because I love the children. The 9 - 3 part of the job is fab. But the rest is not.

I know how hard my childminder works and am full of gratitude and awe at her creativity, enthusiasm and ability to make my DS feel so content. I wouldn't want to do her job.

I always laugh at the people who make the 9-3 comment.

The Marking/Planning Fairy does not exist you know.

Yes we have the holidays but most sensible people will realise that this is when the bulk of our major work happens, plus those of us with DC and term time only childcare have that on top of the workload.

Teaching is a fantastic career and one I love but it does have it's challanges.

And I'm not really a woe-is-me teacher. I genuinely love the teaching bit. But I'm tired and stressed and am easily angered by people who say I have a cushy job.

To the teachers on this thread:

AIBU to ask why we put up with this? I know there were strikes in the 70's and 80's over working conditions, but now I think it's the workload that is the issue.

It's not right that having done a 5-hour working day, we are then expected to do another 3,4,5,6 hours of work afterwards. Yes, the pay is above average for the population, but does that mean that we have to be flogged until we are literally dead on our feet by the age of 40 or 45, and yet still expected to be able to do the job until well into our 60's, or take on other responsibilities simply to reduce the amount of time spent in front of classes, just to reduce the amount of paperwork that is involved, and yet the hours go up because the salary has.

As you might be able to tell, I am a dissatisfied teacher. I'm fed up of being expected to work and work and work just because I have a salary that can pay my share of a (relatively modest) mortgage and other bills.

I second that Grockle!

I was one of you Honest!

sorry op, posted before re reading op

Should diclaim that I was seeing red a bit, some of the stuff you said that people say is a bit "light the blue touch paper and stand well back" sort of stuff for an ex teacher

Would like to add to all those that complain, if it is so easy being a teacher, why are you so relieved to get rid of your children at the end of the holidays?

Agree, hard, hard work 60 hours a week at least, plus most of half term to do planning. I once worked out that I had done a years work in 2 terms based on the average 40 hour week job. But as you say op, who's listening and who cares? It is difficult to change peoples opinions.

Babyheave - I would not apply for a job in a school that was on special measures, I sympathise if you were a new teacher here. However, schools are on special measures though because they are not performing and part of this is down to the teaching and the management of the teaching. If your Estyn report showed your teaching required many improvements then it is probably a good idea for you not to teach.