To feel so sad when I read the nice things older siblings do for their younger ones?

[TheLadyEvenstar]

And realise just how hurtful and vindictive DS1 is to DS2?

An example is before Christmas telling him that Santa wasn't real and me left with DS2 sobbing because he thought he would get nothing for christmas, until my sister and mum convinced him otherwise and that DS1 was just being mean.

It breaks my heart to be honest.

Coldtits - She doesn't have any motivators other than the house being silent! Which is impossible when you have other dc! You can take away her toys/ computer/ everything. Doesn't stop her unless the thing that's setting her off has stopped. EVen if you bin the bloody stuff. Tis effing difficult, but we still set punishments, and I try my best. The older she gets, the harder it is though.

TLE - We all wobble at times when we have dc with asd-type problems, no-one is perfect, we all have good days and bad days.

How about some army issue ear guards?

I sometimes insist ds1 wears his when he's bitching at his brother for 'making that noise' (ie, breathing or walking around)

www.cadetdirect.com/order1.php?pg=121 they are really very effective - cut out all the annoying 'background' of small children.

how does she feel about being sprayed with water? Sometimes to dislodge ds1 from his brother I've squirted him with water and it has, on occasion, worked.

And god KNOWS i wobble all over the place sometimes, screetching "Will you just leave him ALONE, he's being normal!!!!!!!!"

Oh God Coldtits - If I had a pound for every time I thought/said that...I'd be a blooming millionaire! Right at this moment, DD is throwing clothes around the front room because DS1 has had the temerity to put the sound on his ds (just a tiny bit, the very lowest volume it goes to) because he is watching one of the 'cut scenes' on his Prof Layton game. Because he won't turn the sound off, and I've tol her that if she doesn't like it, she doesn't have to be in the front room....

. She 's also punching the chair and 'low-grade' whining.

On the plus side - at least it's the chair she's punching this time, and not DS1....

Sorry you are having a hard time. I don't have experience of SN or of a larger age gap.

My DS is 2.9 yrs older than my DD and I was very jealous when she was little of those with gentle elder sisters. DS would ( and still does ) manhandle her appallingly and for the first year I seriously worried for her life. I would never have left them in a room alone.

DS has a temper and even now if I know he's about to blow, I will monitor the situation very carefully. I console myself with the fact that it is making DD well able to stand up for herself, and unphased by some of the more boisterous behaviour at school.

Please don't compare your children's relationship to others'. There lies madness. And you never get the full info either. A friend of mine who I spent many years being jealous of, has a very mild mannered elder daughter who was very kind and helpful when her baby brother was little. But man, is she a whinger. I couldn't cope with that.

ds2 has become (or maybe would always have become) unfortunately explosive. I suppose in his mind, it's better to escalate a ridiculous situation on HIS terms than on his brother's.

So ds1 says "Stop making that noise!"
Ds2 starts 'squeaking'
Ds1 screams "You're making a NOISE stop making a NOISE!!!"
And Ds2 bellows "STOP SHOUTING AT ME!" and frequently clocks him one with whatever he is holding.

So I wade in and time out ds2 for hitting, then I lecture ds1 for being an over-controlling pedant, and explain how annoying it is to have your every sound dictated to you - then when ds2 comes out of time out, ds1 goes to his room until he is able to cope with noises again.

because with ASD, the noise-control thing isn't just pernickityness, it can drive them BONKERS, but THEY have to live in THIS world, and have their own coping strategies that don't rely on controlling other poeple's noise levels and behavior. The real world does not allow you to silence everyone close to you. You MUST either tolerate the noise or remove YOURSELF.

I particulary hate the way DS1 calls DS2 and DS3 "the brothers" rather than "my brothers"!

I also over use the phrase "leave him alone, he's just being normal".

It is getting a little easier, most meals pass without a fight now, as long as DS1 doesn't have to sit next to DS2.

DS1 has only said he wants to kill DS2 once or twice in the past twelve months.

I actually managed to get some family therapy on the NHS for us, the therapists were very nice, not shocked at all, but also unable to come up with any ideas that hadn't already occurred to us. One thing that they did say was that they felt I was expecting too high a degree of emotional maturity from DS1 (he was 11 at the time), I took that on board and did take the pressure off a bit which was helpful. They also said we were good parents (despite me confessing to the occasional smack and much shouting)which was a boost.

The age gap between mine is five years.

My eldest is and always has been fantastic with his younger brother. Helping him revise for his A Levels. Using his student loan to recompense me for the PS3 I got him at Christmas.

Taking him out, giving him excessive amounts for his birthday on a student loan.

Makes me fill up with pride.

We are trying to work on taking out her stresses on inanimate objects rather than other people at the moment. Sometimes it works....

I think it depends on how vindictive the older one is to the younger one...my mum's sisters tried to electrocute her once and they were definately old enough to know better.

I was really horrible to my sister when we were young she's 21 months younger than me so I don't remember not having her around but I do remember that she just annoyed the hell out of me all the time. We would physically fight with each other and have caused some damage to each other over the years (black eyes and a particularly nasty scalded hand caused by a pot noodle springs to mind)

But the worst thing I remember doing to her was telling her a cup of vinegar was actually cola...she was sick for hours...(is it bad that this still makes me laugh...surely she could smell the vinegar?!?)

I would get into so much trouble for it (which only made me worse tbh as she never got into trouble) because my mum was the youngest of her family. She has two older sisters (7 and 12 years older than her) and some of the things they did to her were terrible and they won't speak to her nowadays. She didn't want my sister and I to grow up like that.

My sister and I are fine with each other now so mum had nothing to worry about, we can still fight like cats and dogs (it's never physical anymore) but I think not living with each other helps a lot lol!

my sister is 10 yrs older than me.
she told me father christmas wasnt real when i was three and all sorts of other things,as i grew up she came to be the only person in the world i could trust to tell me the truth.(long story)
we have been very close despite her living on the other side of the world. (and despite her being an arse when we were young!)

i also have a 4mo ds,and my dd is 2.6 she can be the sweetest most lovely and affectionate big sister,but can turn within seconds

eg: she was kissing him all over yesterday,hugs and kisses,and singing a song she'd made up...
"i love baby brother,baby arlo i love you kissy,kissy baby,now i bite you!
and she bit him!hard!

My sisters growing up were mean to me especialy my sister who is 5 years older, she would ounch me and then tell my mom I hit her.She would shout at me and make me cry but then would always say sorry, but I did do a few things as I got older like push her through our glass porch door!

But my two argue but then dd would protect ds if someone was being horrible, it is like a instinct for her.

But I do think it is normal for there to be a little bit of that between the eldest and the youngest it is when it becomes dangerouse is when there becomes a real problem.

I was on holiday and I seen two girls, sisters but no parents around the pool.I seen the elder one grap the younger girl a few times but thought nothing of it, more I seen though the more I was quite sickned.

She was putting her hands around the younger ones neck and pushing her under water, hitting her around the head and then I actualy watched as she bought a plastic stool into the pool and made her sister come down the slide and as she did she hit her in the head.

I was mortifield, I didn't no what to do so in the end I told a waiter.But that is a silbling hatred gone a little too far!

mommmmyof2 I agree with you about protecting siblings from others. I think I would be more worried if a sibling let someone else be mean to their brother and sister and didn't do anything about it.

No-one else but me was ever allowed to be mean to my sister or they'd have had me to answer to!

Yeah my sisters would always be there for me despite everything we did to eachother, but she does get angry if people upset him even with me but I glad she is like that, shoves they really do love eachother :)

take comfort. I was a right biyatch to my younger brother. now we get on really well.

my to younger brothers were besties in childhood, and now are inclined to argue.

if you do your best, that's all you can do - and you don't know how it will pan out when they're adults.

Older siblings wind up younger siblings, it's the way of the world.Even the most loving of siblings have their moments ,which their parents probably don't share with you.
You cannot punish children into being loving to one another.

My brother and I were VILE to each other, 7 years gap, I mean seriously bad, I fractured his skull, he stabbed me in the arm imagine my poor mum explaining away those injuries at a&e! Thankfully we now get on fairly well, sometime socialise with each other, go shopping/gigs/parties together, fingers crossed your boys will get along better when they are older? my 3 are 5, 3, and 18 months, and all fight and bicker, its wearing, my 5 year old told her 3 yr old sister that we were going to drop her off at nursery and never come back for her and get a new little girl!! This was the morning of her first day.....

Please don't think I am ignoring you all
I am decorating my new flat in between replying here - laptop still in old place

The ear protectors sound a great idea for me DS1.

Whoever said it is more to do with SN rather than sibling rivalry is correct - But at the moment I am learning to deal with this side of things iyswim?

And you have made me feel better after today when I was decorating in the living room, had the boys sitting in the bedroom watching a dvd,DS2 came in to tell me DS1 was climbing on DS2's bed and all of a sudden there was a mighty bang. DS1 had jumped off his bed onto his bookcase and smashed the top shelf . I felt awful when I shouted "Thats not normal behaviour for a 12yr old fgs"

I felt so guilty over it.