to expect my parents to keep their opinions to themselves?

[Mamathulu]

Had 4th cs 4 weeks ago, DH does school runs tues-thurs, so only needed help from my mum & dad with mon & fri for 2 weeks, until I can drive again. (School's too far to walk).

This is the only help I've actually asked for from them. Any other help I've had has been offered. Whilst ringing my dad to leave a message saying my mum didn't need to do the school run for DC's 1 & 2 this afternoon (as xp's organising it), my dad came out with -
"You really need to sort out your flat, as it really distresses your stepmum to see it in such a mess after she does so much to help you out."

Now, don't flame me for this, but it's practically impossible to keep a house tidy with 4 dc's at the best of times, never mind when you have a 4 week old baby, right?

I tried to be calm about it, but he compared our house to theirs, where there's 2 adults, who're both neat-freaks, who both work part-time. I pointed out that a) caesaeran 4 weeks ago b) 4 dc's, one of which is a baby, who I spend 4 hours feeding in a day, one is a toddler who plays with toys all day. I also ended up saying that if it distressed them so much to come round, then perhaps they should think about whether they want to come round here, as they don't have to.

DH works full time, going to London 2 days a week, and I work part-time, DC's are 12, 8, 23 months and 4 weeks. The house is a perpetual bone of contention between us all - DH and I battling DC's 1 & 2 to not be so messy and help out a bit - by this I mean, occassionally wash up, put their clean clothes away & keep their rooms tidy - hardly slave labour. Then every time my stepmum comes round, she'll tisy for an hour or two, but expect it to stay that way.
Meanwhile, DH and I realistically know, that as fast as we pick up the toys and clean the kitchen, more are dropped and more washing and washing up is made.

However, my main beef is this - as I'm now an adult, my dad really shouldn't be telling me how to run my life. Surely, even if my house is not kept to my own standards, they should not expect me to keep to theirs and ABU to perpetually say so.

So, AIBU or am I being postnatally hormonal about this?

If its so hard to keep a tidy house why have four kids?

I dont get all this 'its so hard because ive got X amount of kids' yet people keep having them- bizzare!

Personally, I believe all bets ae off for six weeks after a woman gives birth. During that period there should be a moratorium on any comment, be it about the home, appearance, other children's meals and bedtimes etc.

And this applies to everyone no matter how close. It also applies when the new Mother is not there. Commenting/bitching behind her back should not be tolerated, especially by other Mothers hwo should pull people up. And sharply.

However, it does sound as if you have an ongoing problem, and with four children you are going to need to be deperately on top of things.
How about using this sedentary time to make lists and prioritise what needs doing.

Gemsy - Maybe it is because having a tidy house isn't that important that it should be a requirement of having children.

YANBU OP - None of your father's business. My father does the same but he is beyond a neat freak and would throw everything out except his arm chair and the telly given half the chance.

Sounds like you are on top of it enough considering your current circumstances.

Gemsy83, bah humbug to you too. The complaint about untidyness isn't the OP's, it's her dad's. Maybe she's got more appropriate and positive priorities!!

In fact, gemsy I agree with my dad - I DO need to sort out my flat, but firstly, it really wasn't appropriate for HIM to say it, given that he doesn't actually help with the DC's, my mum does, but also that it's the general point in principle that you don't talk to another adult in the manner he did, telling me I should do this, and that the inference was (in my dad's ineloquence, I realise,) that it was more of an issue that I'd upset my stepmum by not managing to keep it tidy after her few hours' worth of help. The fact that I can tidy my front room three times in a day and it still looks the same in the evening, completely escapes their notice.
It's his condescendence to continue talking to me in a more patronising manner than I do with DD1 (12) that also riled me - I would never dream of telling someone they should tidy up their flat - it was the phrasing and the tone. I don't tell him that he should buck up and focus on doing one job at a time and not get sidetracked so that it takes him 3 weeks to a 1 day job. Nor do I tell him that he and my DSM are driving DH's family mad with their interfering, brash manners, inviting themselves to do's with DH's family, making sure that whenever the IL's are visiting that they come round as well, despite the fact that we see them once a week as a minimum.
They both mean well, but there's only so much highly-opinionated narrowmindedness we can take. The fact that my incredibly laid-back, chilled out and level headed DH feels the same way suggests that I'm perhaps not quite as mad as I think I am.
In fact, over lunch I remembered when my DSM threw out all of my toys when I was 12. Apparently it was because I had 'too many' and I was 'too old' for them. I just think they wanted to get rid of the mess. In fact, the more I think about it, it was actually me they wanted to get rid of.

Oops, sorry - bit of a rant there!

I get this from my mum too, and my dad although he is nicer about it.

They live just the 2 of them in a small bungalow, and we live in a bigger house with 7 of us! Mum just rants and moans that "it would be easier if you just tidied up occasionally" which pisses me off because I feel that I should be a quadraped, the amount of time i spend bent over picking things up!

Gemsy, To put it into perspective, if we all left 2 things each not put away in one room, like say a newspaper and a coffee cup, it doesnt sound much. But that is 14 items cluttering up the place, times that around each room in the house and you have a massive mess! Yes I do get the kids to tidy after themselves but still, it isnt that simple!

Totally out of order of him to say that to you your and adult not a child.
FWIW my own parents where the same [Dad's gone]except they moaned about everyone behind their back.Funny thing is my sisters and I remember doing everything at home their 8 and 9 years older than me and I remember them taking me and DB everywhere as a kid not my parents we've all said we taught ourselves to look after our kids as we didn't get any good examples of them.

Gemsy because some of us love our large families and are not so obsessed with tidiness that we would let it get in the way of having our beautiful children.

"Cleaning the house while the kids are growing
Is like shovelling the snow, when it's still snowing"

YANBU

Phew that feels better

your house, you live in it, you know what is possible to do, do what is important to stay healthy and tell your dad that you are a grown up now.

and breathe

neat freak dads, who'd have them?

A suggestion regarding the 'help' you get from your two oldest DCs -

Sit them down and have a chat about how everyone has to contribute to the house (eg how even toddler DC can help you put his toys away) and that you're not asking anything unreasonable of them. Point out the things you do for them over and above 'normal' duties (so not cooking, cleaning, washing, but the ferrying to playdates/clubs/parties, having their friends over and feeding them etc). Say that if they won't do their jobs without
begging repeated requests shouting, you may not be so amenable about their requests in the future.

And you are doing all you can wrt to the house at the minute.
Just enjoy new DC and recover!

It's very weird for your stepmother to be "distressed" by the state of your flat. Doesn't she have anything else to keep her busy?

YANBU. Tell your dad and stepmother to mind their own business. If they don't want to help out, then that's their choice but to make comments on other people's homes is extremely rude.

I only tidy up/hoover etc at the end of the day when my 3 are in bed. Otherwise, there is absolutely no point. And if anyone dared to say anything about the state of my home (unless it was dangerously dirty), they'd get shown the door, frankly.

Manners cost nothing.

Well, I'm not entirely sure, but I think they've got the message now. After our barney discussion, I didn't ring her back at all, which I usually do, in order to apologise and smooth things over.

After talking to DH about it, I resolved that when she got in touch, I would be civil, but cool for a while, and for the sake of the children, not mention anything that had been thrown up because of it.

However, 4.30 on Friday, the shite really hit the fan. I got a phonecall from DS1's head, saying that he'd kicked off at another pupil at school, which resulted in him physically kicking and biting the teacher who had gone to restrain him, and then he'd done the same to the head!

Absolutely devastated - DS1 had some bullying problems in Reception and Year 1, when his behaviour problems started, but when he moved class in Year 2, it settled down. We'd had a few hiccoughs in the first term at junior school, but this was beyond a joke.

My only saving grace was that as he's at the school where I worked before having DS's 2 & 3, the staff all know me really well, and they also know DD who went through all four years with a halo above her head.

However I was sobbing after the phone call, DH was at work and I didn't know what to do. Somehow I was going to have to get to school on Monday morning without DH, with 2 DC's, a toddler and a baby - and the ex-p, who's pathetic and can't drive.

So, determined that I wasn't going to ask my DSM and DF for a lift, I rang them to tell them about the incident and that they weren't going to have to do Monday's school run, as I would just drive the van myself.

DSM - bearing in mind this was one of the lowest, most heartbreaking moments of my adult life, chose to say the following, that this event had happened because:

1. DS1 plays too many video games/watches too much telly. (He'd had 1/2 hr on Weds when a pupil came to visit the baby with her DC's. None on Monday, or the weekend before, as we'd been visiting the IL's.)

2. DS2 (22 months) runs riot around the house - basically because I don't stick him in a play pen all day. We have a gate on the front room doorway, and all the electrical wires are pinned to the wall & the equipment is up on shelves - so it's uber-safe for him to play.

3. DS2 also keeps DS1 awake all night with the telly playing. (DH, DD or I switch it off at 9, a good hour after they've both fallen asleep.)

4. DS1 doesn't do enough activities - (so chess, rugby, tennis, recorder, tapdance, choir, & cello/piano with me aren't enough.)

THEN, and I knew this was coming - out came the trump card - this disaster had also happened because, and yes, you've guessed it:

5. I didn't keep the house tidy enough.

In my distress, all I managed to get out was :
Well, you've made it quite blatently clear how shit a mother you think I am, but I'm sorry, but I can't take these criticisms right now.

And I hung up.

She then emailed me with a 'helpful' email about autism the next day, as I'd mentioned that I think he might have some SEN, as he definitely displays a lot of autistic qualities, but mildly.

I've just treated her and my dad very cooly since - I let them contact me, and I've been civil ever since - but by god, I will never forgive them.

Initially I thought she'd been really calculating about it, trying to get back at me for all the years I was a PITA to them, but now I realise they're actually just as thick as shit. And I just sit nicely in the knowledge that I'm going to have to choose their nursing home for them. I'll be fucked if I'm having them ever live in my house after that!

DH, DD and friends have been amazingly supportive, and have all said that she's obviously not all there herself, and not having ever raised any kids except me from the age of 8, she really has NO idea about parenting.

On the DS1 front, ex-h and I went in on Monday morning to talk to the head with him in tow. The long and short of it was, we think he's having problems forming friendships and has a problem with rejection.

They internally excluded him for a day, so he sat with a TA and worked alone. He's filling in a behaviour chart after play and lunch times, and is spending half the lunch time in an indoor supervised space for kids with similar problems, which seems to be working fine.

As the head and his teacher said, he's a good kid, bright, and is absolutely fine in class and at home, so we just need to support him so that he can mature emotionally and learn to deal with these things. As always, my (1's across the board for the last Ofsted!) old school deals with these things calmly and with a good dollop of common sense.

The head and I agreed that if there's another incident, then we need to get CAMHS involved, but fingers crossed it's just an emotional maturity problem he can sort with our help.

and breathe!!!

Blo-ody hell!

Bollocks to all the cleaning issues (so what? sooo many people have those): these people are horrible. Sorry they are trying to treat you like this, and good for you for getting a response in, and for hanging up on her!

YANBU! Your family sounds like mine in some ways (and some of my in-laws)! V.glad DH is supportive (yours and mine).

If you are worried that the house is becoming a bit of a bear-pit, I found the Flylady website useful, when I'm well. I had a CS almost 3 weeks ago and the house is not as tidy as I'd like, but I have the view that I've just had major surgery, no-one has the right to judge it ATM.

There is another website mentioned on there, being a Flylady equivalent for kids (Housefairy). Even if they just did the once-weekly 'task' (that pops up on Flylady, which is free), it would help you. It tends to be something easy like empty all rubbish from your room, or pick up all laundry.

DD is nearly 5 and she has chores to do each week, so when you've had a chance to recover a bit and catch your breath, it might be worth thinking about if your kids would be able to help a little. DD only has 2 or 3 chores a week and they tend to be simple things like cleaning a small mirror she can reach, and using the dustpan and brush (she loves to sweep up - long may it last).

TBH I never let my mother in the house unless the cleaning lady has just been - it upsets her and then she upsets me. She knows fine well it's a tip most of the time, but since she doesn't come in unless it's tidy it lets her keep up the pretence in her head that I live in a sparkling palace.... (I wish!)

Can Mum and Dad not drop kids off at the end of the road? Or maybe you walk to a cafe nearby?

Or if they really begrudge doing it, is them getting a taxi a possibility?

What a horrible old bag! Poor you having to deal with a pair of arses like them!

TBPH, OP I'm not sure what you're achieving by maintaining contact with them. They don't seem to give too much of a shit about your kids (leaving a toddler unchanged and crying for a whole afternoon is CRUEL; slagging off your poor DS1 when he's clearly a bit lost) and they don't seem to give too much of a shit about you (attacking you at your lowest point! shame on them!)

Would you not be better to quietly phase them out than just keep up a pretence that you're OK with them?!

YANBU to want your parents to keep their opinions to themselves.

YABU to expect them to...they're your parents, they'll never stop interfering in your life!!

OP congrats on the new arrival! I feel your pain re the junk!
My kitchen had clutter....it was all "Important things" of the DC....random crap small treasures...I put it all in a bin bag the other day I'm afraid...and threw it away!

Nobody even noticed!

I think I'm a little in awe of you :)

I love the response "Well, you've made it quite blatently clear how shit a mother you think I am, but I'm sorry, but I can't take these criticisms right now." its the kind of thing I'd get off the phone and WISH I'd said.

It's not like you're burying your head in the sand and saying your house is a palace. You know things need doing and you'll do them when you have the time/energy/inclination.

My parents house is a tip, but I think how they chose to live is their business.

Congratulations on your newborn (and the other 3!) Sounds like you're doing just fine.

Thanks ladies! I have thought about cutting ties with them in the past, Scotland, but for the sake of the DC's I've thought it best to bite my tongue and leave it.
DSM does do some nice things: pays for the kids' tennis lessons, takes them out to a museum for a day in half term etc. I just think she's crap with babies because she never had one.
And of course, it was only our suspicion that she'd left DS2 in the playpen with a dirty nappy, as he spent a very long time ignoring her.
Still, we've got my celebrity cello pupil coming round with his family for tea to see the new baby either tomorrow or Saturday, and if my house is good enough for his wife and son to feel comfortable in, enough to call 'cosy', then it can't be all that bad really, can it? :o
I can only hope that DH gets a pay rise when he goes back to going into London every day, and then we can get a cleaner!!