to think that so many women have traumatic damage during childbirth, and why can you not have a CS on demand?

[GetOrfMoiLand]

No I know this is probably a contentious point, and financially there would be a hell of a burden, but it seems that a woman's body is not brilliantly well designed for childbirth, and so many women have had terrible vaginal damage caused by birth, you only have to look at the threads on here.

I was only thinking this because SIL went to A&E on christmas day due to severe rectal damage, she was in utter agony and couldn't go to the loo. And one of her friends who gae birth at the same time had terriblt third degree tears also.

Disclaimer - I know bugger all about anything, but childbirth can cause such trauma, there is a perfectly good alternative which would reduce these incidents of damage (yes, I do know that a CS is major abdominal surgery, I have had abdominal surgery myself and although painful, I wouldn't say it was as painful as my poor SIL's injuries, not by a long shot)

Well said soggy14.

Washngo, my recent CS was a great experience. I walked in, got on the table, and in less than 45 mins I had my new little one in my arms! The recovery was ok - though I had a bad reaction to some of the pain relief which meant I was running for the loo (well, staggering). That kept me from resting, not pain. Apart from that, and the soreness making breastfeeding tricky, it was totally fine.

I like the idea of the cutting in half, as long as they do it like a magician's trick with the box and everything. They could produce the baby with a puff of smoke and then just put the box back together and hey presto.

Now my actual 4 inch CS scar seems really boring.

I know MM.

This is an anecdotal/experiential thread, and it is very wonderful to read women being very honest about what VB can entail. There is a huge silence about what can happen to women's bodies.

And as people keep repeating, it's all about informed choice.

But I do feel a tiny sense of responsibility to say that, yes, those statistics about what can happen in a CS have women behind them, and yes, it could be you. There are good reasons for choosing a VB, if you are in a position to choose. Risk of death is one of them (it's lower with a VB) - and death is so very ... final.

Having said all that, my CS was (bizarrely) a largely positive experience. After the operation, baby latched on immediately, bf'ed beautifully, and I healed quickly. Slightly surreal. but there you go.

My EMCS was hard to recover from but I would rather have that than long-term problems that some VB's cause. My planned cs was easy to recover from, I simply refused to do anything for a month or so.

One of my friends has had 2 home births, is younger than me, active and healthy but told me she can no longer run without leaking . I do feel as if I got away lightly with my cs's. Personally, a 4 inch scar is nothing, although having c-sections meant I had to keep my family small and stuck at 2 DC's. I daresay the risks would have shot up if I had had more sections.

Risk of death...well let's talk about that stat. Risk of whose death, the mothers? Yes, though that's taking all c-sections together (emergency & non) and emergency c-sections are performed in highly risky circumstances anyway, so that muddies the waters.

Risk of death for the baby is LOWER with C-section.

I had a natural birth with my son. He was premature AND induced - I gather they don't do this so much now - my son was born in 2000 - my waters broke, no labour, so induced birth 5 weeks prem. Tear not bad but present and unpleasant. Traumatic labour, yes - so much so that we are only now trying to conceive again, as I refused to even consider another baby til nowish.

I have made an appointment with my GP to discuss what my options are re: elective C section IF I fell pregnant - as am not willing to give birth vaginally again. I adore my son, I am grateful every day that I have him - but I STILL have nightmares about his birth.

AND - I feel that the trauma of his birth contributed to the difficult bonding experience with my son. I would seriously consider saying to my partner " I cannot do that again" if they said I had to give birth naturally. That is NOT happening to me again.

Risk of death for the baby in question is lower with CS (though with elective CS the birth is necessarily slightly premature, and you can't always tell for certain how premature), but you are noticeably raising the risks to any subsequent babies from that womb.

catnao I have every synpathy with how you were left feeling - I felt the same but as a result of an emcs. It just goes to show that the individual experience can be the traumatising factor, not necessairly the method of delivery.

The difficulty with these threads is that everyone has such vastly different experiences of vb, elcs and em-cs.

Before deciding on an elcs for my 3rd dc I read lots of threads on here about how wonderful and calm people's experiences of elcs were, how quick the recovery etc. Ds's birth was of the 3 probably the worst, in that I lost lots of blood, my bp crashed, I had inflamed veins in my legs, a reaction to the pain meds and an infection in my scar and ds had respiratory distress syndrome and spent 8 days in scbu on cpap being tube fed. On the other hand I will probably have to have surgery to correct damage from dd1 and 2 (3rd degree and second degree tears) and if I had torn again with ds then I would almost definitely be looking at a lifetime of double incontinence.

Experiences and choices are always shades of grey, but sometimes these threads make it seem so black and white (eg "I would rather be cut open than bust my vagina and risk prolapse or wetting myself for years to come.")

Ds is 6 months old and I still have nightmares about him being taken out of me when he wasn't ready for the world, the fact that this was my choice has left me with a complex stew of emotions.

As for the cut, it may only be 4 inches, but for me personally it really did make me feel like I had been sawn in half.

yanbu.

i had a 4th degree and terrible problems

good friend of mines ds has brain damage due to getting deprived of oxygen at the birth, if he been born via cs he'd be fine.

HJ - I was thinking of you when I posted. I remember reassuring you about CS, mainly because it sounded very much as though it was the best option for you, and I wanted to be positive about something about which it sounded as though you, in reality had very little choice.

I still feel guilty because I "suppressed" what had been my experience. (Hence sense of duty posting here.)

Wish it had been better for you.

The difficulty with these threads is that everyone has such vastly different experiences of vb, elcs and em-cs

Animula, please don't feel bad, I think we all do it with regard to birth, because we really don't want to be the voice of doom and gloom. Also I suppose I was trying to say in my post that I sort of did and didn't make the right choice - shades of grey you see.

I think when I am pregnant I tend to stick my fingers in my ears and go 'lalala' when I hear negative things anyway!

I am really pleased about the number of comments about "informed consent" as it seems to me that this is very much lacking when it comes to VB. As for a 4 inch scar - my episiotomy scar is easily 4 inches.

hazeyjane, you're right we shouldn't generalise. Surgery is surgery - a bit of a horserace, and there's no guarantee as to the outcome.

I had a good experience with my c-section, but I'm aware from personal experience that things can and often do go wrong, unpredictably, in surgery. That's another story, unrelated to child-bearing!

Hazey I totally relate to your posts - I had a VBAC with DD2 and of my 3 births (ECS - VBAC - ESC) it was the most traumatic

I was diagnosed with PTSD after wards

That said I still went for a VBAC with DD3- possiblt because I felt I owed it to myself as a 'woman' to try the whole thing one more time - mainly because I wanted to be able to drive!!!!

didn;t work - little minx got upset after 26 hrs and I ended up with a section anyway

I just know that I cannot go through labour, and birth, and recovery, and PND as a result again. I have had major surgery twice since my son's birth ( broken shoulder and later pelvis through 2 car accidents), and neither compared with the distress of my vaginal birth. If my doctor says I have to "try again cos it's always different and number two is easier" - I'm straight back on the pill.

Catnao - I strongly suspect that if you tell your consultant that, you will be booked for an elective caesarian.

animula - having to get drunk now to have sex, as we have discussed the prospective new baby at length - but I cannot BEAR the thought of childbirth!! I KNOW this sounds mental, and I KNOW millions of women do it every day, - but since it has become a real prospect again, the nightmares have returned!!

catnao - I think that you're not unusual in that. Not statistically average but it's not an untrodden route, and your consultant should recognise that it's a real psychological issue. I'm no expert!!! btw - that's just from anecdote. Go talk to GP about it. Not worth casting darkness in your life, when you might have an immediately positive and understanding response.

"Perfectly designed to give birth" snort

I've done it both ways and was far less damaged by the CS than by the so-called natural delivery.

Breastfeeding was FAR FAR easier following the CS - because, for one thing, I could actually sit down, also I wasn't on massive doses of antibiotics and painkillers and I didn't require several repair surgeries and painful and embarrassing treatment for months and months afterwards.

Catnao, it does not "sound mental". after the trauma and injury I've seen friends endure after so-called "natural" births, i did some reading on this.

Tokophobia, or fear of childbirth or pregnancy, is a form of specific phobia. Other terms for the condition include tocophobia and parturiphobia.

"can manifest through a number of symptoms including nightmares, difficulty in concentrating on work or on family activities, panic attacks and psychosomatic complaints. Often the fear of childbirth motivates a request for an elective caesarean section. Fear of labor pain is strongly associated with the fear of pain in general; a previous complicated childbirth, or inadequate pain relief, may cause the phobia to develop."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokophobia

Thanks animula - have appointment on Friday to discuss - hope I won't be told to grow up and get on with it, as that was pretty much the advice 5 years ago. After which I went back on the pill...

OMG frgr - that sounds EXACTLY like how I feel!