To ask my friend to better discipline her child

[MrsTwiceslice]

Namechange for this btw.
A friend and I regularly hang out at each other's houses on our days off, with our kids.
We have boys of similar ages, and the idea in the beginning was that they could play together.
We were "mum" friends initially-We met at a playgroup, but now we have become pretty good real friends. I like her a lot.

The trouble is her son. He is very physical which manifests itself at some point (every time we see them) in pushing or hitting my ds, or other agressive acts.

My ds used to find this very distressing,(he is a gentle soul) but he has sort of got used to fending off this child, and kind of puts up with it.

This makes me feel quite upset, because I don't think he, or anyone, should have to put up with being pushed over, having their hair pulled or whatever.

I feel powerless to stop it because I cannot discipline the child for my friend.

If I see the other boy do anything like this (or see he is about to) I just stop his hand and say a firm "no!"

If my friend sees it, she says "no pushing!" or "if you do that again you will have to go on the naughty step."

The things is she often gives him several warnings before anything happens.

The other day her ds pushed my ds into the side of a (stationary) bike, really viciously, and she just said to him "say sorry and kiss Joe"
Is it me, or does that warrant more than a "say sorry"?

This child obviously realises that he can do anything he likes, he just has to say sorry afterward.

My friend has made comments in the past about how "overexcited "her son gets to see mine, which is true, he does like my ds, and my son (inexplicably) likes him, otherwise I wouldn't bring him round at all.

I don't think it is just high spirits though, and if I were her he would go on the naughty step EVERY TIME he pushed or hit. (it happens with other children too, not just my ds)

Should I just stop hanging out with them (I feel myself about to blow and I don't want to create a bad situation) or should I try and speak to my friend about the way she (doesn't) discipline her son?

Oh dear - awful situation for you. At the end of the day you won't always like the parents of the friends your children chose and your children won't necessarily like the children of your friends. For now you will see your friend in non child time - perhaps for an evening drink, etc., or pick it up again later when they are at school. In the meantime I think a sure fire way to ruin a friendship is to criticise someone's child/ren - esp. if the friendship is relatively new.

He needs to find a little friend who won't hesitate to give him a good whack back!

Hers not yours of course.

Agree with A1980 know I have tendancies to be a people pleaser but I realised when DD was about 3 that in her eyes I was consistently inviting a girl into our home who would basically physically and mentally abuse her all afternoon because I liked her mother. Dealt with it by terminating all one to one playdates and only meeting infrequently and then in neutral places like the park where they are not forced to play with each other or without children. The difference to OPs scenario was that the mum was a really good parent, disciplined her DD and was mortified at the behaviour. The child is now 4 and although high spirited is a decent kid thanks to the parents putting the effort in.

I had this with a very close friend. Her son was into biting my DD when they were both around 2. Just horrible. I can't believe how I boiled inside with murderous rage. Esp when she cuddled him and said, '.. don't do that, darling, everybody here loves you, you really shouldn't bite.' Aaargh.

However, I went too far the other way and made a fuss of DD, who learnt that if she stuck her finger in his mouth so that he bit it, she'd get cuddled! (And she's always had plenty of love, it just became a ruse to get attention!!) It was awful, but it ended up stopping of its own accord. It's a tricky age..

I'm not sure what I'd do if it all happened again. I'd have to say something, I wouldn't allow my child to get hurt. I think if it happened, immediately after I'd look at my friend and say, 'right, what shall we do about this?' (In other words, immediate action called for please.) She can't just sit back and leave it. If she does nothing, then I'd actually phone her and say you'd rather put meeting up with the kids on hold until they're older and the hitting is less likely to happen.

If you say nothing, you'll just end up raging inside when you see them, and it'll ruin it for you.

this is a difficult one my dn is very physical, but my dsis does put him on naughty step, time out and follow through threats. but my dd is very atuned to this and knows what buttons to push but never hits back or firts etc, so although there are times when both need a firm line it tends to be him.

we tend to follow the line who ever sees it has permission to punish or discipline, ie we both tend to follow the lines, in my house my rules and if that warents the naughty step then either or will do it. But I dont know if being family makes this easier.

We have also cooled of time together due to high spirtied and over excited behaviour and neither one gets offended, its realistc to say that if children spend too much time together, disruptive or over raught behaviour can have an affect and maybe have a break for a week or two.

you should be able to just take a harder line on this behaviour by suggesting to him, you hit in my house you go on the naughty step and rope his mum in on this gently, ie, doesnt it mummy!!!

also talk with her upfront about taking a break as maybe dcs have spent alot of time together and effects of behaviour on your ds.

I have had this too. My friends DD's are demanding, tell tales - probably because I will disapline DS, where as they get 30 warnings then cuddles/distraction.

I solved it by learning to say 'ok, thanks for telling me' when tales were told and not punish DS, even if he needed it. I would tell him afterwards, speak to him quietly in another room at the time but never where the other dc's knew about it. This, for some reason, made my friend punish hers when they were naughty. I do wonder whether because without the time outs my DS looked like the better behaved child, as although no-angel, he never did anything physical, nasty etc. I think that by him being punished it 'looked' like he was naughtier as he had time outs and the name calling, screaming at and hitting my friend her dd's did could be looked past.

They are better now, but the younger one especially has a poor attitude. The crisps always have to be where she puts them on the floor, usually an inch away from the middle where the adult puts it. I refuse to engage in battles, I'll put food down, if moved put it back, warning about leaving it alone, then remove. As the others get annoyed with this DD she has stopped. She is also one to say 'you only sat there because I wanted too' etc. I playfully say 'yes I did, I knew yesterday you would want to sit here at x o'clock, so I decided I would sit here just to really annoy you, did it work?!' Usually the answer is 'but I want to sit there.' I can then without disaplinging nicely suggest she tries another way of asking. I know if she was rude and I simply asked her not to speak to me like that my friend always jumps to her defense, shes tired, she didn't mean it that way etc.

Sorry its epic. I just wanted to show you that you can overcome this. My friend did get really angry with me once for not disapling DS when he spat back in her DD's face. I simply said her DD did it 3 times, DS asked her to stop and she carried on. Either things were wrong for all DC's or all got away with discusting behaviour. Things have been brilliant since then.

I haven't read the whole thread, have just come to stick my oar in
My gut say that YABU to ask your friend to better discipline her child. Without a doubt. My first response is to say, it is not down to you to tell other people how to parent their children. We all do what we feel is best and do that to the best of our abilities.
But then as a parent of a 'difficult' child myself, I do understand your frustration and upset.
Me and my friends have an understanding that when the children are in someone else's home, they live by that houses rules.
I am lucky in that me and my friends have pretty much the same ideas on what/how we treat our children (mostly).

Some days, I will go through the motions of telling ds1 "no hitting. If I see you hitting again, you will go to the naughty spot" etc, even when the fight is out of me.
It is very very difficult to stay on-top of a 'demanding' and 'difficult' child 100% of the time.

The thing is, if one adult hits, bites , or otherwise attacks another adult It's called asault, and is illegal.

If an adult smacks a child on the bum many on MN will cry "abuse! and get all up in arms about it.

So how come one child physically attacking a child is so dismissed by some on here eg "Oh ds will get much worse at school-better get used to it, learn to fight back etc"??

Personally, if anyone had kept pushing me as a kid I would have decked them, but some kids just are not comfortable with doing that (and lets face it, may be reasonably scared to.)

We police our communities, we live in a world where adults are expected not to get physical with one another and are punished accordingly.

Isn't one of our jobs as parents to teach our children what is, and is not acceptable in society?

And anyone whose child who is violent to another , repeatedly, needs to do something about and not make excuses about "exuberance".

I think she is actually acknowledging the child is behaving badly and dealing with it - just not harshly strictly enough for your liking.

One lesson in life you could start to teach your child is how to answer back when a child pushes or hits him - i.e. saying "don't do that, I don't like it" loudly and firmly. As well as teaching your child some assertiveness it would mean that episodes don't go overlooked.

schmee I do that with my ds's. They both know now if one of them hits the other they are to say "please don't do that, I don't like it"
I have also been trying to teach them how to use their words to expres their anger/upset and we try to acknowledge and accept their feelings. Ds1 now has an 'angry pillow' that he can hit, kick, bite etc if he gets wound up. I have told him that I cannot allow him to hurt other people, but that it is ok to be angry. That we need to use our words to tell other people how we feel, but that if he is very angry, he can show me how he feels with hos pillow.
When he attacks his pillow, it lasts a few minutes and then he will continue to play.
All trial and error though hey

I agree with KERALA that the best thing you can do (well the only thing, really) is to severely limit the amount of time your child has to be with her child.
Otherwise you are basically sitting back and inviting someone in to your home who you know will hit, and be generally nasty to your child.
You won't, can't, change her parenting style; you might WANT her to be more consistent with her son but she is not going to change to please you - harsh reality I'm afraid!
The only thing you can do is prioritise your child and not meet them so much. Agree meeting at places like the park is a good idea. Or swimming.

OP I can understand your frustration, but I don't think telling your friend how 'better' to discipline her child is going to work.

She is disciplining him, just not as much as you want her to.

I would agree with some of the posts above about keeping them separate if your DS didn't like him, but he does. You like her; DS likes him. It will probably all work out fine!

If you can't bear it, then meet your friend without the children. I have done this and it really is so much less stressful.

I had this problem too but my son didn't want to see her son due to his aggression and i mentioned this to my friend. As a result i saw the mum on my own for about 4 months. Things improved a little after between the kids.

If she isn't happy to discipline her own child-tell him in front of his mum that 'we will leave and you can play on your own if you hurt my son again' and follow through straight away calmly/politely without hesitation. Have a fab treat ready for your son and maybe take him some where nice.

you have to be calmly assertive on your child behalf.

actually making a big fuss of my injured son worked well too. I would scoop him up and turn my back on the other child/walk away from him. I'd openly talk with my son and acknowledge what the bully had done and how it was very bad.

Thankyou northernrock a voice of commonsense at last - not that a lot of other posters haven't made very valid points but shouldn't we be raising our children to be members of the further community rather than being out for themselves.

I am sick and tired of my daughter coming to me when at my sisters house screaming in pain with a big slap mark on her cheek only to be told by my sister that 'she didn't see what happened' so won't be disciplining her child for slapping mine in the face

Ummmmm yeah kids regularly damage themselves to get others into trouble

My children are disciplined and know if they slap each other they will lose privelages ...I'm starting to think I ought to teach them to fight back

Needless to say I don't take any of my children to my sisters place anymore as I don't want to put them in a vunerable position

OP i think you are actually yabu, as a few people have said she is disciplining him just not in the way you would like. Not everyone uses the same methods or has to use naughty step for everything. She is not ignoring the behaviour, and you have said both your boys enjoy playing together so its not like your ds hates being around him, in which case you stop them seeing each other.

If you say anything firm enough to her to make her realise how pissed off you are, you will no longer be friends.

People do not take well to having their child criticised, no matter how justified it is.

So be prepared for that if you say something

I have a girlfriend with a similar problem, but she babysits the little girl and she's always hitting both of her DC's. Now her DD (the oldest) hits other kids and there have been complaints about her DD at play dates. By not speaking up and telling her friend that she can't babysit because of the behaviour, her DD has now adopted the same behaviour.

If you don't do something soon, your DS may start to do the same things that are being done to him.

Do you like the mum as a friend? I mean, really like her - have a lot in common - want to stay in touch after the kids have gone to school etc?

If not, then you are only staying together so that the boys can play together. Maybe the boys are not as compatible as they were when they were smaller and it's time to drift apart.

(We had a similar situation when DD1 was three. We were still meeting our antenatal group weekly. Two of the other children were much more boisterous than DD1 and their parents were similarly chilled out about telling them off. I came to realise it was a personality thing, stopped going along, and DD1's confidence blossomed when we found some more gentle friends!)

However, if you really like the boy's mum as a friend, you can either choose to meet her without children, or make sure you meet somewhere the boys have plenty of space to let off steam/get away from each other, or be very vigilant in protecting your child from actual harm and/or use it as a chance to teach him to be more assertive.

Telling your friend to be more firm is a hiding to nothing. Everyone parents differently and it can only cause offence.

I don't think the other mum does actually discipline though, as some have said.

It's not about having to use the sames methods as everyone else-it's just about do something that will change the behaviour.

Thats what naughty steps etc (and I dont use one, I use sanctions) are for.

The mother of the hitting boy is saying "no hitting" and the boy continues to hit.
So how is that discipline exactly?

Stay awat from this friend when you've got your son. It will get worse. I had a friend like this and she had a weird pride about her son being such a bully, he's much older and her two sons annoy her dd until she screams.

I wouldn't even bother saying anything to her, it won't do any good, just phase her out.

I agree with everyone saying you can't change the way others parent their children.
I have had a similar problem, the first episodes I told my friend that her child was obviously telling her something because of his behavior. And that she had to work out what was bothering him and I would be limiting playdates to once every two weeks until I saw an improvement. The second eposides I told her child in front of her that if he didn't want my child to hit him back he had to stop pushing/hitting him first.

She said nothing and we carried on as if I had said nothing.
She doesn't see anything and her Husband thinks her 2.5 yr old is a genius because he could do a shape sorter at 8 months. He could only do it at 8 months because he spent hours sat on his play mat alone while she got on with chores such as finding the best insurance quote to on the internet.
I wish you well

DD1 got bitten a few times when she was a toddler and I taught her to push a child away if she thought this was going to happen and to tell the child loudly not to hurt her. She didn't need to do this until she was 10 and got regularly pushed around by a girl at school. One day she pushed the girl back and knocked her to the ground. The other child wasn't hurt but she left my DD alone after that.

Children have to be able to protect themselves.

IMO this mother was not disciplining her child. DD3 hits out at one particular friend (both age 4) and although it's 6 and 2 3s between them I won't accept it. No amount of telling her off or explaining works, so next time we see them I'll be sitting right next to my DD so that I can physically stop her hitting out. I'll be doing this because I'm her parent and I have a responsibility to ensure that she doesn't turn into a thug!!