Universities mis-selling courses

[LornMowa]

Having read a post in Money Matters and knowledge of 2 other people whose lives have taken a turn for the worse since becoming a student, AIBU to think that Universities should be much more discerning about who is allowed to take courses.

I think that by enticing people whose earning prospects are unlikely to be enhanced by a degree to become students, some universities are as reprehensible as other leaches such as loan sharks.

To the poster on MM, I do hope that you can improve your prospects and resolve your current problems.

I am a programme leader for a postgraduate course at a University and I would agree 100% that we mis-sell. Its all about making money for the Uni. I spend most opf my time marketing the course , trying to sell to foreign students and makig us look good.

but students need to be savy - I am a careers adviser - not employed by a school or college - I ALWAYS tell young people that they are WORTH MONEY to the institution they apply to and they often tell them what they want to hear - Eg I had a 6th form (school based) assure a young person that a BTEC Nat in sport was a great course to do to get into pysiotherapy

50% of people with a uni education isn;t massive in comparision to other countries - and graduates do do better over their lifetimes than none grads

Interesting article about whether PhD's are worth doing The Disposable Academic

Interesting. I wouldnt do one but for my job and progression. They are really dragging the chain with funding any of us to complete though.

I would say a large proportion of the universities in the UK offer completely worthless degrees. It is a disgrace.

I know a couple of kids who are £££ in debt after studying Football Studies at Southampton Solent, and Gambling Studies at Salford. They cannot get a job as everybody knows they are completly useless subjects.

Everyone involved at the university should hang their heads in shame at the fact that they are peddling these ridiculous degrees and getting thousands out of daft young kids who choose these courses.

I recruit engineers and commercial graduates a lot - I also automatically throw away any CV which does not have an academic degree from a decemt uni. And some of the CVs are set out ion a shocking manner, terribly written. Why employ a graduate from somewhere like the Uni of Gloucestershire, when I could get a grad from Bangalore with a BEng and an MBA? Students from developing economies are completely wiping teh floor with the UK grads.

lol at the irony of my criticising spelling etc when my own tyoping on MN is so shoddy

Not only do unis mis-sell they bend over backwards to get people through the degree....

And FWIW my family are probably upper-middle class (although one could argue upper but based on my parents' jobs we're upper middle) and my parents insisted we all picked up experience and/or a qualification in a practical field. I kinda regret not doing plumbing but given it's not a career for me and the courses are hard to get on and apprenticeships competitive it wouldn't really have been fair....

ANYWAY that has been far more useful to me than my degree, it effectively paid for my degree as I had experience and could work, it got me the job at the end of my degree (the degree is just a pretty but of paper) and means I'll probably always be able to find some kind of related job.

We're now in the situation where people are doing degrees to have a degree because it's the entry level requirement for so many things you could do better by leaving school at 16 and spending 5 years working up to.

Oh and I would love to do a PhD, but for fun and not in an area related to my original degree!

As a careers adviser, I would never advise intelligent young people to aim for apprenticeships rather than higher education on the basis of their socio-economic background. It is essential that young people and their parents understand what their prospects after graduation are likely to be and to investigate graduate destinations from their subject and the uni they want to apply to.
I'd also like to point out that CA's are impartial, usually not employed by the institution in which they work and therefore would not be advising progression on to uni to make a particular school or college look good.

I think a lot of people get careers advisers and careers teachers muddled up :)

Perhaps all institutions that provide degree courses should legally have to publish figures on the average income of those that have graduated? I think it is unfair that so many young people are doing courses that will add nothing to their chances of a good career.

It's a bit unfortunate that you discard some universities automatically GetOrfMoiLand. I did a MSc from a less-than-top university simply because the university was halfway between work and home. If I had wanted to do it at a more highly rated uni I would have had to have either given up my job (impossible as I was the sole family financial support at the time), waited more years than I could have afforded to (I started it when DD was 2), or simply not done it at all.

I work in one of those "highly rated" universities now. I'm constantly surprised at the poor levels of literacy from the A* students we recruit, not to mention the amount of hand holding that goes on with respect to some of the basics like using the library.

I agree that there are worthless degrees, but at the end of the day, the people choosing to do them are at fault. Anyone with half a brain should realise that a degree in football studies is not going to be worth much (maybe that should be the selection criteria? If you're applying to do a degree in football studies, auto reject?)

Gordys - true, I'm in Scotland and we don't really have careers teachers here, just us!

We find it really difficult to trace careers after people graduate . Our undergraduate courses do lead to careers but there is a huge emphasis on directing people to postgrad. I rarely say no to applicants for my course. I did at first but we needed a certain number to justify the course running. We also sell to foreign students , obviously, as they pay so much more.
The ostgraduate evenings we hold are pretty swich- huge buffet, lovely decor, we are all on our best behaviour and there is wine :)

I agree slug...some students amaze me with their poor abilities.

My partner used to work at an organisation where there was a large call centre. Apparently about 80% of staff had degrees. A 16 year old could do the job. I think it is outrageous that hundreds of thousands of young people are wasting 5 years of their life doing A levels and degrees when most jobs are fairly simple and could be picked up in a couple of months.

I dont think degrees are useless at all btw. I just agree that we mis-sell and just market to sell our own courses.

I think a degree is valuable but sometimes I just want to shout to applicants "head for the hills, this one isnt for you"

GetOrf - interesting point about students from developing countries; Geez - I do find the selling of courses to foreign students objectionable (in some cases at least)

One of my ex-colleagues from Thailand spent 3 years on a PhD and I feel she was actively kept going despite repeatedly not meeting english language skills tests. I edited a few of her earlier chapters, but her poor understanding of english meant that there was no way she could write anything academically worthwhile. She would have been much better off going for a PhD from a local uni... pity is that her employers didn't see it that way and only funded places abroad.

I think that uni acted disgracefully and should have been honest with her, rather than selling more and more

Totally agree. Thing is local students cant get funding or wont pay for postgrad. I always wonder where the foreign students keep their pots of money as they are charged at least 3 times more.

who are you top decide who is wasting their lives doing alevels and degrees though because a trained monkey could do their job? what if they want to go further later on, they would be trapped with only the most basic education.

I find it sad that so many people seem to see a degree as only a means to an end and a waste of time. I finally started my degree at the age of 27 having been unable to go at 18, and its not a waste of time. Maybe it will help me in work, maybe it won't, but thats not always the point is it?

Who should decide then who should aim for university and who shouldn't?

geez - from what I could tell her government employers paid from a central pot for which she had to compete. But I'm also concerned that this is another channel for foreign aid being directed back to the country it came from

Buzz-If someone wants to do a degree, of course it is up to them. I just think people should be fully aware of the reality that they could do a degree and still end up in a job paying the minimum wage.

Oricella, I'm at a Russell Group uni and I see a lot of foreign students who have difficulty with English doing PhD's. Thing is their countries benefit from the exposure of their citizens/employees to western culture and there is some glamour to be had from having staff with RG qualifications. Besides the specific employee is always contractually obliged to go back to their employer for a set number of years (2, 3 or 5). So its not like this investment by that country (aid money as you imply - might well be) is completely wasted - less the student fails obviously.

Interesting discussion!

It's a complex issue though because although I agree that we need to look carefully at what education is offering us right now (education in a subject versus huge debts when we leave) my own experience contradicts what has already been said on this thread:

My partner acheived a D and an E at A-level and says he should never have been allowed to go to uni, but he did - got a degree and got a good, well paid job.

I was a bright student, got some reasonable A-levels and also did a degree at the same uni. Since then I have done 2 postgrad degrees on top. But I earn peanuts and have trouble climbing the greasy pole.

I would argue that class background plays a more significant part than we would like to admit - my partner is from a more middle class, professional background, had the confidence in his ability, and is also male - and has become a senior manager. I come from a lower working class background, had no confidence, and was constantly offered admin and secretarial work - I am female.

So it isn't just about ability, A-level grades and experience, there is a lot more at work - class, gender, ability, confidence, practica skills, application...

Given the choice gain I doubt I would go to uni especially with the amount of debt it accrues.

Do I think unis mis-sell their courses? Possibly, yes. I think that will change now students pay so much for them - they will become the consumer and if unis don't deliver what they say they will, there will be complaints.