to think that £4.92 per hour is ridiculous?

[Chocolocolate]

My DSil has recently completed her NVQ in childcare and works full time in a nursery.

She is 19. My DBro is 21. They pay all of their bills etc between them.

Their rent is £500 per month for a rubbishy little flat (although they have made it their own).

DSil told me over Christmas that she only gets paid £4.92 per hour - the national minimum wage for 19yos. AIBU to think this is very low? Not just for her - the national minimum wage is low.

Why is it less for a 19yo than a 21yo? They have all of the same responsibilities etc of an older couple.

If she wasn't with my DBro (who gets paid barely more than the national minimum wage himself) how could she afford a place to live?

They are both v. hardworking people, as are many who get national minimum wage, should this not be higher?

Baroq, the Tories claimed that business could not afford the minimum wage and would lead to wage inflation which never happened.

I earn £32K plus a variable commission of £22K a year, if the mimnimum wage was raised by £1-50 an hour I would not be asking for a pay increase for that reason neither would DP who earns around £40K

With you night manager example both are being exploited so both deserve a proper wage.

Why do you defend explotation?.

Niceguy2 do you think it's fair that a 20 year old gets £1 less per hour than a 21 year old? Out of interest.
Your interest is irrelevant. The only thing which matter is if the hypothetical 20yr old is "happy". I put it in quotes because they always have the option to go and try to find a better paying job.

Out of interest....how is the govt going to set a minimum wage which will cater for everyone from the school leaver living at home, a SAHM mum who just needs some extra pocket money all the way to a cash strapped couple with young kids and a big mortgage?

Unfortunately this is true for pretty much all care jobs. YANBU to think this but it will never change.

As many people on this thread have pointed out, it is possible to earn more working in a supermarket, however since we spend the majority of our lives working, i for one would rather spend it living modestly whilst doing something i enjoy unlike my gran who retired after working for 30 years in a supermarket and hating the bloody place.

Yes Boo. They were wanting shelf stackers - no experience necessary, training will be provided.

He was obviously judged lower than that, being as his application was rejected to start with. I'm not saying he SHOULD have got a job, just laughing they chucked him out on the 'not the right qualifications/experience' thing really.

Hmmmmmmm.

I don't defend it - but I do defend small business for whom with a staff of say 10 or 20 people an increase of a wage bill of 10's of £'s a year - especially when so many are close to going under with the way the economy has been of late - will be too much.

Where do you set the threshold? Should a Mental Health nurse be on the same wage as the Clinical Assistant? Cleaner be on the same wage as the NQT??

they employ people they want to stick around. with qualifications liek your son's, it was likely (as did happen) he would leave as soon as a more suitable job was on offer. but if tehy employ people who have fewer quals, tehrfore fewer prospects then tehy are more likely to stick around. it costs them more to keep advertising for staff so they like to keep staff turnover down. so don't take it as an insult taht they didn't employ him, it won't be because tehy didn't think him good enough.

Nice - answer the question - should the 21yr old childcare worker (or any other job that's paid minimum wage) get paid £2000 a year more for doing the exact same job as her 20yr old co-worker? Assuming all other factors as the same. What makes the 20yr worth £2000 less??

Nice, answer Baroq, you Tories are good at defending the indefensible.

Maybe Boo, but it was a temporary job over the Xmas period!

I did Baroqin. The answer is that it doesn't matter what we think. The only person who's opinion matters is the 20yr old's.

If you want to ask questions about fairness, you could go on & on all day.

Is it fair that care workers are paid less than supermarket workers?

Is it fair that my CEO is paid about 10,000 more than I am? Does he work 10,000x as hard?

Is it fair that a 16 yr old can have sex legally whilst a 15.99 yr old cannot? What level of maturity magically happens overnight?

Xmas staff often become permanent. it would save them readvertising if they have someone who is willing to stay on after the busy period. just a theory, i have heard this talked about alot, especially on Mn.

Well, I'm hoping my lad's 'temporary' contract at the Engineering co is made permanent, they've budgeted it in for the next financial year and his Manager has already said 'I have high hopes for you young man' so we'll see.

He'd have been just as happy at Asda though.

Tory??? ?? Me??

ermm sorry to disapoint you but you've got the wrong person. I'm no Tory - never have been, never will been.

Niceguy - how could they set a minimum wage that works for everyone?

Well - they could start by looking at the group that's probably got the lowest expenditure in terms of housings/bills/food - like the hypothetical 35yr old man I used above. Make sure that the "average" full time minimum wage worker living in a shared house with no dependants has enough to live on without needing to rely on state top-ups.

Wouldn't cover everyone - but I'm sure if they used a median LHA rate and council tax rate it would improve things at least a little across the board.

There has to be something wrong though when a single mother of 3 working 40hours a week would be getting more back from the Government in benefits/top-ups than they earned before tax! (and that's without including any of the childcare element!)

No niceguy you're missing the point.

2 people doing EXACTLY THE SAME JOB with EXACTLY THE SAME QUALIFICATIONS, with (for arguments sake) EXACTLY THE SAME OUTGOINGS EACH MONTH.

Why is it that an 18-20yr old (who is now legal to do all of the things mentioned above) and pays taxes like everyone else and can vote etc etc can be legally paid a lower wage for doing the exact same job as someone who is 21 who is also legally old enough to do all those things

and on that note I'm off to bed - I have a huge "PMSL" on my face - I've been called a communist, and liberal hearted socialist, and all sorts of other left wing insults before but never in my life has anyone ever said I was a Tory

First of all if the girl is smart she will be looking at saving up to start her own nursery or work from home as a childminder. A girl in my class left at 16 to become a hairdresser. We all laughed. She was earning a pittance and worked 50+ hours a week. At the age of 22 she borrowed a lot of money and opened up her first salon. She owned 5 hair salons at the age of 27. She is now 30 and has probably expanded in the past three years. She is a millionaire twice over, married to a great guy and has three kids. At 27 she was working behind the chair one day a week and spending half days working to maintain her business.

With regards to minimum wage I will probably cause ruptions when I say it should be scrapped. Personally I think it hinders those with less experience getting jobs which eventually lead to higher paid employment in the future. Instead I think society (taxpayers) should support those on low wages. If you are not working and able bodied you should get bare minimal support. In this case the couple earning minimum wage should not be paying any income tax and they should get help with their housing costs if living alone and away from home. In addition there should not be any limit on the number of hours worked in a week.

Two people doing the same job with the same qualifications will not the earn the same amount if the level of experience is different. A 21 year old is nearly always more mature and able to handle more responsibility than an 18-20 year old. However, I believe they have a higher minimum wage for those over 21 as this is the age that most finish their education.

I agree that it sucks and as a 22 year old I was very pissed off that the guy working next to me was earning GBP10k more than me. I had a degree and was far more able than him. When I went to HR they said he had the experience while I didn't. When I pointed out that itt took me 9 months to get promoted while it took him 7 years they said that was irrelvant. I was also working two other jobs, one of which was full time. The other guy 'had' to leave at 4.30pm everyday to make sure he got home in time to read to his kids. His girlfriend didn't work and I was the one covering his rear end for the last hour of the work day.

I have 5 Highers and a degree. I've done a few different things over the years usually fairly well paid. I have been a fully qualified nursery nurse for the last 5 years, I'm 43 and get paid £5.93 an hour. It's crap wage for what I think is an important job, but most nursery nurses don't do it for the money, they do it because they want to work with and contribute to the development of young children.

The OP's sister sounds like she is doing really well and has plenty of opportunity to go further if she wishes, especially as she is so young. I wish her all the best and do wish people didn't look down on childcare workers, as seems to be the case sometimes. Although there there seem to be a lot of people on MN who realise their value.

Was just wondering about supply and demand - a poster [sorry, forgot who] said that childcare wages are kept low as there is a large supply of young girls wanting to work in childcare, thus no great demand for staff and no need to pay more to attract applicants.

However there is a shortage of midwives I believe? Why do wages not go up to attract people into this profession?

It's awful. I used to get paid 3.50 an hour for working crap hours in a nursing home, and I suffered a permanent back injury as I was given no training. More like slave labour.

YANBU.What can be done about it though is beyond me.

I agree she's underpaid compared to her coworkers who are older - it is unfair to have different minimum wages and not helpful to anyone. I don't agree with the idea that it creates opportunities either.

But for your Dsil, would she consider nannying? She could expect between 9 and 10 per hour for that around here with her experience. Also as a parent who has a lovely nanny I'm happy that the money all goes to her so she gets a decent wage rather than being eaten up in nursery running costs and insurance etc.

UnderTheRadar2212 - Even for a temp job, they will be testing out people for full time roles and keeping their CVs on file for other busy periods. Why waste a position on someone who will show no loyalty to the company and probably will not be available in future (as he is obviously capable of earning more than ASDA temp wage)? As someone else pointed out, recruitment from scratch is expensive (advertising, interviewing etc), much better to have a pool of people already marked reliable and likely to be available.

Does seem odd that we are not allowed by law to discriminate on age yet the minimum wage does exactly that. At our preschool pay is based on qualifications not age.

well, re the nursery pay - surely that's why I've had to sign a contract with DS's nursery stating if I hire his key worker within 2 months of her resigning from the nursery I agree to pay them 2 months worth of her salery - as nursery staff get paid pennies round here, nannies expect £9 an hour after tax, and nursery places are £55 a day, with no massive discount for a second DC, lots of families were recruiting the nursery staff as nannies when the second DC came along - splitting the difference between what they were paid before and what an experienced nanny charged.

OP - tell your DSIL to suck it up for a couple of years, get the experience and then start working as a nanny.