I probably am, but more of a plea about spelling/grammar

[JaneS]

Right: I know on MN lots of people pride themselves on being articulate and intelligent. And lots of people pride themselves on correct spelling and grammar. And I know that the two sets of things don't always go together, so that there are posters who are very articulate and intelligent but whose spelling is shite, and also posters whose spelling is correct but who aren't especially articulate (like me, most days).

I expect we can all agree that it's rude to mock someone for poor spelling/grammar.

What gets me is that I've recently noticed. Often, when the OP has been slated for being inarticulate/using textspeak/ poor spelling, someone else will jump up and post "You are all being very rude to the OP, she may be dyslexic".

I'm probably being a twat, but when I read that my heart sinks a bit. I'm dyslexic and it's taken me ages to get to the point where (I hope) it doesn't show too much. Lots of other posters are dyslexic and spend lots of time and patience explaining politely why they write a certain way. But it seems as if to a lot of posters 'dyslexia' is an all-purpose excuse for objecting to bullying the OP.

Would it be possible for us just to object to bullying on the grounds of poor spelling, rather than always diving in to assume all poor spellers are wee helpless dyslexics?

I've got a feeling this post is really badly-argued so I hope some of my point gets across.

Well said - bullying people is wrong, whether or not they have a condition like dyslexia which "explains" the way they express themselves. We shouldn't challenge bullying because someone may have a condition, we should challenge it because it's just plain wrong.

YANBU
it is shocking to take the piss out of someone's grammar or spelling, my DH for one never learnt english at school, he's fluent but his spelling is atrocious. It says nothing about his intelligence levels. People are mocking a lack of education, which is equally as shit as mocking a learning difficulty, but not necessarily the same!
Personally, I find poor spelling and grammar hurts my eyes so I choose not to respond to poorly written OPs. I certainly don't start mocking their writing style or requesting that they use spell check. The reason I mentioned DH is that it takes him a lot of effort to write a relatively short piece of bizarrely spelt prose - and I know british people who are the same due to lack of education - and to mock that is extremely thoughtless and entitled. DH would be mortified if someone mocked his efforts.

I just think it's an annoying waste of a post to bother having a did because of a spelling mistake or a bit of bad grammar. as long as you can understand what te poster is trying to say without any difficulty, what's the problem?

When I first joined this site I was surprised how many people posted just to say 'oops, sorry, I meant xxxx'. It just goes to show how paranoid people are about being judged over something so trivial.

I don't personally mind it if someone corrects me if I'm making the same mistake again and again - but only posters who 'know' me have ever done that, and then I think it's ok. I'd tend to assume self-correcting on this site mostly happens because we don't have an edit post button.

I'm just increasingly fed up with well-meaning people thinking that dyslexia and ignorance/inarticulacy are the same thing.

na, i dont give a fiddlers fart if folk correct me, or are shocked at my spelling.

not here to impress, just to exress my opinions in a polite and resectful manner.

i get the message across and get replies, sometimes make friends. who gives a shite!

Oh and im not dyslexic, just thick i spose

I proof read for a living, so I cannot help but pick up (in my head) grammatical errors. But I would never be pedantic or cruel enough to snidely criticise. Saying that, spelling is not emphasised in schools very strongly any more and I can get a bit twitchy about the incorrect use of 'their' and 'there'....

LittleRedDragon is very perceptive....word blindness and struggling with sentence structure is not the same as daftness. Expression is the most important element and I would hate someone to feel awful because they can't spell.

LittleRedDragon...you express yourself beautifully!

YANBU
English is not first language for me but still i can write better if i force myself-ie at work. But this is just a forum and most of us just type quickly while doing other things at the same time. It is not a competition.

If you read good writers you see that grammar is a matter of taste at one level. Punctuation too. Spelling is usually firm. But some dictionaries give alternatives. John Lennon wrote a joke book some Tory MPs thought he could not spell. He was making upnew words...we laughed. So did Lennon. cheers "Gabby"

Punk i will try to avoid you now
(i think there are many proof readers here, scary)

LittleRedDragon - you wrote that post beautifully.

I couldn't agree more, and also, whilst it is important to nip bullying in the bud, in my opinion, it is often used on here as a kind of form of defence. For example, if someone doesn't agree with something someone else has said and there is scope for 'bullying' to be called then they use that rather than a good form of debate.

Anyway, well said. I hope many more read your post.

I'm just increasingly fed up with well-meaning people thinking that dyslexia and ignorance/inarticulacy are the same thing.

Oh yes that is so annoying especially as I often take great pains that my grammar and spelling are as correct as possible. Have you met people in RL who when they find out about the dyslexia assume you can not read? And insist upon it despite all contrary evidence - I have and they are beyond annoying. Just as bad the people who insist you can not have the condition because you can read/write or pass exams the person I had to get past to finally get assessed was one of those.

I think it a case of 'a little knowledge' and it happens with a lot of conditions and situations. I do find it an odd and strangely prevalent belief that spelling and grammar are linked to intelligence.

Awww ... punk, nigella, that is very kind of you both. I was honestly expecting to get slated here as I was struggling to write wht I meant.

I've learned a lot from altinkum on here (I'm sure she won't mind me mentioning her as she's very open about this). Before I read her explanation I found it hard to rationalize why writing poor grammar happened. I'd always been taught that poor grammar was a sign that you're not organizing your thoughts properly either, but I realize now that although good grammar is really useful for structuring thoughts, sometimes something entirely mechanical gets in the way between thought and text!

YANBU but I have never felt like a "wee helpless dyslexic" I am dyslexic and have never minded the objections on those grounds.

Oh dear Laquitar - please don't avoid me...I feel as if I have chronic BO at party!

I never go all Lynne Truss - unless someone pays me to do so. I recently checked over a student's final thesis. English was not her first language and I really admired the way she had struggled to put it together. I never look down from a great height. Look, I can write and spell well but I have no practical skills at all - I actually fall into the daft category. My mother crossed me over the road until I was fifteen. Words are all I have.

(Rushes over to buy some new cyber deodorant)

Cross-post with you masochism. Yes, it is SO annoying when people assume you can't read! I think it's really damaging because lots of people think if their child has been diagnosed as dyslexic, he or she must be destined never to get over the problems. Lots of people on here seem to think dyslexia means you can never learn from your mistakes in reading and writing.

I often think the 'oh, don't criticise them, maybe they are dyslexic' line is a bit strange - IME people with dyslexia take a lot of time and trouble to avoid making mistakes. Far more effort than most non-dyslexics make.

Thing is, if your mistakes are never corrected, how the hell are you going to know that they are mistakes? Obviously MN is not school but it can actually be useful if someone points out that it's not 'reason d'etre' or 'pur cent'.

I have a phd, I can read [takes a bow]

I am a pedant. I make occasional mistakes, as we all do - typos, not thinking clearly - and frequent misuse of '-' because it fits with the way I speak.

I do not take the piss out of spelling and grammar errors but they do annoy me - have also done proof-reading work as I am good at spotting spelling mistakes.

However, there are some spelling errors on here that beg to be corrected - because they are prevalent and wrong! One word in particular that does drive me mad is 'loose' instead of 'lose' and just occasionally I will point it out. Very occasionally. Mostly on pedant threads, to be fair.

Why can so few people spell 'lose' these days? Are they badly taught?

@cyber deodorant! I loved it.
(no, i'll not avoid you, you sound nice)

I agree, it is perfectly possible to be dyslexic and thick.

Most of the time people do it when it is a typo though and so it is just silly.

I agree with LittleRedDragon and her OP was written beautifully.

I think "txtspk" on anything but texts is plain rude though - I don't think there's much on these boards, is there?

scurry, I put my hand up to that one!

kindle - I love the 'PhD and I can read' - I'm guessing the PhD came some time after the reading! Though my cousin can't really read and has his PhD (proud emoticon).

I've seldom felt like a 'helpless dyslexic' anywhere, certainly not on MN. That's why it's so annoying that some people seem to think dyslexics are all poor fools who couldn't be expected to learn anything!

If someone corrects me for a mistake, I'll be grateful. If they take the mickey, I'll be pissed off. It's not hard to distinguish between the two, and implying that dyslexics are people who can't learn from mistakes is muddying the waters, imo.

Yes, it's really patronising to people with dyslexia to suggest that they make mistakes all the time or are unable to learn.

The really interesting thing is dyscalculia - the concept is so much younger than dyslexia, it's where dyslexia was 30 years ago or more, with teachers not believing it exists and schools insisting that kids are just thick.

I get very confused when someone posts in lazy textspeak, gets told they're hard to understand and then other posters play the 'oh she might be dyslexic' card.

I'm sorry, but no-one text-speaks by accident! It's just lazy and disrespectful to everyone else to post like that. Surely you'd look around before you post and see everyone posting with real words and full sentences. So to me, to then choose to post in a completely different and difficult to read way is wrong and rude.

However, I don't agree with pulling up posters on spelling and grammar when it's obvious it's just an honest mistake. Some people are natural pedants and proofreaders, but that's just too bad! You have to just ignore it and move onto the next post!