I probably am, but more of a plea about spelling/grammar

[JaneS]

Right: I know on MN lots of people pride themselves on being articulate and intelligent. And lots of people pride themselves on correct spelling and grammar. And I know that the two sets of things don't always go together, so that there are posters who are very articulate and intelligent but whose spelling is shite, and also posters whose spelling is correct but who aren't especially articulate (like me, most days).

I expect we can all agree that it's rude to mock someone for poor spelling/grammar.

What gets me is that I've recently noticed. Often, when the OP has been slated for being inarticulate/using textspeak/ poor spelling, someone else will jump up and post "You are all being very rude to the OP, she may be dyslexic".

I'm probably being a twat, but when I read that my heart sinks a bit. I'm dyslexic and it's taken me ages to get to the point where (I hope) it doesn't show too much. Lots of other posters are dyslexic and spend lots of time and patience explaining politely why they write a certain way. But it seems as if to a lot of posters 'dyslexia' is an all-purpose excuse for objecting to bullying the OP.

Would it be possible for us just to object to bullying on the grounds of poor spelling, rather than always diving in to assume all poor spellers are wee helpless dyslexics?

I've got a feeling this post is really badly-argued so I hope some of my point gets across.

Well, I AM a bit Lynne Truss about spelling and grammar. I used to work in recruitment, and ANY spelling and/or grammatical mistakes were a certain way to get your CV filed in th "circular file", as I felt this was unprofessional and lazy, even if the candidate was not applying for a job where this was necessary. Mind you, most of our jobs were office-based and needed high standards of literacy, so this would have disqualified poor spellers.

BUT, I always took note of people's nationalities. I would not bin a CV for a job where this wasn't an important requirement if the candidate was not a British national and they were using their second language. After all, their English was better than my Lithuanian or Swahili .

I think it's important to remember that some Mumsnetters might be resident in an English speaking country, but perhaps haven't been here their whole lives, or even for very long. We may not know this from their profile or previous posts.

In addition, some people like me dodgy lushes might want to post after a few drinks , and these things tend to take a back seat.

Er...I meant the, not th

yanbu
perhaps mn hq could delete all posts by the self appointed prats pendants.

rebecca, I'm not sure why needing 'high standards of literacy' should disqualify 'poor spellers'.

I don't mean to be rude, but did you know that it is not legal to discriminate in that way?

Personally, I think I maintain quite a high standard of literacy in my writing. I hope so, anyway. But my spelling can be shite, so I always use a spell-check. I use it on MN, and it is very helpful, except when my spelling is so poor I can't work out what the correct version would be. Then, if I am worried, I either type (sp?), or I google the word. I don't think you'd notice my poor spelling if you employed me. The point of this thread was to say that many dyslexic people find ways round their problems.

My grammar is not great, welsh is my first language.I know my English is shit, had no comments about it though, so either Im getting by ok, or MNers have been to polite to comment

Agreed though, to presume some is dyslexic, and then type about it in a post is rude.

And of course a good deal of actual dyslexics would never use textspeak at it is more confusing to read, not easier.

(sorry if this has been said already)

I loathe language nit-picking, especially on a no-edit forum like this one! I'm about as pedantic as they come but language is for self-expression, not point scoring. The purpose of a discussion board is to 'talk' via the keyboard. Posters who can't see past incorrect writing are as rude, snobbish and intolerant as those who make judgements based on accent.

Exactly, trillian! It has been said before, but it bears repeating.

I dunno, think the English are a bid odd about thinking it's rude to correct mistakes. If we were communicating in another way - say, using numerals instead of letters - would people think it was not only fine to make mistakes but actually not fine at all to notice them?

(I am British myself, btw, just wondering if there's something cultural here.)

Sorry for repeated posts but for e.g. someone wrote 'per say' the other day. Seemed likely they just didn't know it was wrong - had heard it but never seen it written down. If someone had mentioned, nicely, that it's 'per se', it might have helped them avoid embarrassment in future by making the same mistake somewhere where it does matter.

(Of course, as on any spelling thread, I'm now doubting myself!)

Huh, edam? When you get numbers wrong, it has a material effect on the outcome. When somebody writes "They didn't want too loose they're toys", the meaning is still evident and the outcome unaffected.

In both cases, mind you, the reader can request clarification because this is a discussion board, not a work of reference.

There is a tactful way of doing that: using the same expression in your reply. Much as you might tactfully introduce a mispronounced word into your spoken reply.

That's true, Grace. Although mistakes do sometimes obscure meaning you can always ask. But I was more thinking about how we are not only tolerant of errors but disapproving of anyone who points them out when it comes to written words and how perhaps this only applies to language, not other means of communication or activities. Can't think of a good example, but people tend to make the effort to remember their PIN and passwords because you do need to be careful about them. (Btw, I am not the sort of pedant who objects to 'PIN number' - saying both aids understanding and fits the way people use language. It's the people who created the acronym who failed to do their market research - and probably don't care if anyone says PIN number anyway.)

yy, I do that sometimes but thought it might be a bit marked on that occasion with 'per say' and upset the poster.

I suspect we have similar viewpoints, edam! I've become infinitely more tolerant of misspellings and grammatical errors as they've proliferated. English prides itself on adaptability; it's adapting before my eyes and I just go with the flow

IMO it is rude to bluntly pull someone up on an error, unless it's a factual mistake that can cause problems. With language, the definition of 'error' is subjective anyway. Some twerp, years ago, corrected my spoken "grass" (short A) to "grarse". I've never forgotten it! Mainly because I was rather proud of not punching him in the face ...

yes had this 2 weeks ago on here. I hate the fact that my dyslexic and that people still link dyslexic with IQ!
TBH I get very upset by it, and find it embassing.
So yes while I know this is an important issue for some, and they pride themselves on good spelling and grammer its not fair on those of us who cant help it :(

I'm sure in most cases that if the poster has posted some outrageous opinion or generilisation and it's been in textspeak or grammatically poor, then other posters pick up on it more - they'll argue about the subject matter but ridicule the posting style.

I've also seen new posters being very kindly steered towards what's generally acceptable on mn. Maybe I've missed the nastiness for nastiness'(s?) sake.

With me it's lack of paragraphs. Extended pieces of text make my eyeballs do strange things. I saw one post in relationships I think, that another poster split into parags for her - so she'd get more replies. I thought that was lovely

lisad, fwiw I like your posts and find them easy to understand x

i have had many years of practice in my job, having to write 40 pages of reports for court is hard work with your boss down your neck!

YANBU

YANBU it can all get a bit silly and boring when people throw their toys out of the pram about spelling and typos.

Can't imagine they'd be much fun at a party...

LittleRedDragon, I didn't mean to be offensive. But somebody like you who uses spell check carefully, and finds ways around the problem, and who, if as you say, I wouldn't notice your poor spelling if I employed you, would NOT hand in a CV littered with mistakes. Therefore I would not discriminate.

BUT, if you haven't taken those precautions with a CV, then you won't take those precautions when I put you into a temping jobs where you had to write letters or emails, and it would be unacceptable to the client to have unprofessional, illiterate work going out. That is not what they pay the agency for.

FWIW, I would not consider you a poor speller. You say that nobody who employed you would notice your poor spelling. Therefore you are a good speller. It doesn't matter if you are a good speller because you are naturally talented and never have to look anything up, or if you have to spell check every single sentence and Google some words, and are very careful. If the end result is correct, that's good spelling in my book.