To prefer Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays!

[kittya]

Its too American isnt it? Its just something my friend told me about her workplace, that they arent allowed to send Happy Christmas cards to clients anymore but, Happy Holidays.

Maybe I just need to move with the times

theevildead2
Thanks for pointing that out. I had better read OH's emails.

Himalaya, you are right, not all traditions are good. We have to get rid of bad traditions. But Christmas is not a bad tradition. The Archbishop of York "said he believed the purpose of winterval was to "systematically erode Christianity from public view"." I bet he doesn't read the Daily Mail, but maybe he should start reading it.

Let me get thet right TheTimesMner, You think that a Christian tradition is failing because Muslim children do not celebrate Christmas? Sorry but if it is failing it is because Christians maybe do not care enough to make it survive. There are 3 Muslim children in the school (mine) and you think that because of them not taking part the tradition is fading? Surely it is NOT up to Muslims to make sure Christmas tradition does not fade? All I can do is say "do not change your beliefs to accomodate mine because I do not want that and am not asking for that" I cannot celebrate a festival because the people who should be celebrating it choose not to.

I definitely have NO responsability in Christian tradition fading, nor have my Children or any non Christians (of any other faith).

'She's sitting in her Islington living room laughing her organic, fairtrade socks off.'

no chance, not an Islingtonista or Guardinista am I.

But I'm close, right?

agree with gorionine. It is nothing to do with Muslims. Jehovah's Witnesses don't celebrate Christmas, and puritans like Cromwell actually banned it for a time. Religious freedom is great, we live in a free tolerant land and the progressives do not have the upper hand.

seeker, you're not close. Your MIL is close, but you can't see it.

Oh, that is one example of many. Last year, DP's team had xmas lunch. He said he'd go along, but asked if they could go somewhere where there were vegetarian options as he doesn't eat non-kosher meat. So where did they choose? A German restaurant where there were no vegetarian options and most of the meals contained pork, so he didn't go in the end.

The difficulty is (from a work perspective) is that these events can be very beneficial/useful career wise, as it's one of the few opportunities to talk to colleagues in a more relaxed environment, or mix with people from different depts (if you work in a giant organisation like I do), so either you choose to not get involved with all the xmas stuff and potentially compromise your career, or you do, but then get forced into things you don't feel comfortable with.

Did you read my post? My mil was standing under a huge display of Christmas light in the centre of one of the most ethnically diverse cities in the UK, telling me that the council had banned Christmas!

Yes I read that. But she was still right. She sees beyond the obvious, which is why she is most probably a reader of the Daily Mail. She sees the future. The bulbs of the flashing Christmas light are temporary, they won't remain on forever, and she knows that.

The Guardian has told you none of it is true, winterval was fake. Your MIL doesn't read the Guardian, she knows what is true.

Oh that's just a total lack of understanding towards what vegetarian means. Unfortunately that seems to be the case with most people i know! Although you'd think that they'd know a German restraunt isn't the best place to go... if someone doesn't do pork

seeker ah wondered if I was taking some bait I shouldn't have. Is it a Xmas tradition?

I think everything held dear by your run of the mill Brit is under threat. Apparently too many schools think it's not inclusive if it has a nativity. And it's not a Christian thing per se it's a tradition, roots undeniably Christian but I know that many people who enjoy the Nativity tradition do not believe in God/Jesus or anything else.

It is a tradition not a bloody sacrifice.

And regarding marginal religions like JW they have never been taken as seriously, never had as much press coverage, never been so segregated and never burnt any poppies in the name of their religion against British troops. So sensitivity to Muslims, who even in this case, separate themselves and define themselves by their religion more than any other group, is very very acute.

TheTimeMNer is right. Our traditions are under threat. Seeker's MIL and millions of others instinctively know it, whatever the Guardian and Liberal Conspiracy tell them. But it is not from other faiths or ethnic minorities. It is from the anti-traditionalists, the powerful progressives.

"Apparently too many schools think it's not inclusive if it has a nativity" yes and THAT is the problem, not everything can be "inclusive". Schools would be better off carrying on doing a proper nativity and let people choose if they want to take part or not. It is silly to change a tradition to accomodate a few pupils who are asking not to take part. asking not to take part is not the same as asking for the tradition to be removed!

Abs, sorry I seem to have missed your posts. The Scrooge thing is really bad! Did they change the venue to German restaurant after your Dh asked for veg option? wow!

I didn't like to say anything, but it was me- I have been cancelling Christmas up and down the land

well me and my merry band of progressives

we are very sorry, and will not do it again, provided you all promise to celebrate your own damn festivals as you see fit without bellyaching about what others might think- in a pluralistic society there is always the slight chance that people might not agree with you or worse, not give a crap about stuff you hold dear

soz again, and happy winterval!!

I don't think it was a misunderstanding of what vegetarian is (if it is, I'm concerned about the stupidity level of his colleagues) we're in London FGS - it's a pretty cosmopolitan city. I would understand more if it was say, Lille, where they do not count bacon lardons as "meat" (true story). But in London, most people have encountered a meat-free meal. They all had to put in preferences, and DP's one request was somewhere where they could have vege food, but they all went for German. Very odd.

If you bitch about Happy Holidays you are being like my mother and thereby utterly U. (I didn't mean U in the Nancy Mitford sense but you're being that too.)

I received a card from my work partners in Israel wishing me a Happy New Year. I do the same for them, as it would be ridiculous to wish them Merry Christmas when I know for certain that they don't celebrate that festival.

Exactly Just. My friend who covers the Israeli markets is actually quite happy - he's working all the upcoming bank holidays (as the Israeli markets don't close), and is then going on vacation in January getting two extra days in lieu, paying a third of what he would have if he'd gone over the december break. I'm actually quite

'real American people say Happy Christmas.'

For starters, it would be 'Merry Christmas'. And also, Americans are extremely proud of the inclusive nature of American society. It would shock a lot of them to think that anyone would consider only the ones celebrating Christmas to be 'real' Americans. Course there are the 'birthers' who would take it as a compliment.

People who instinctively know their traditions are under threat no matter what the evidence says are usually referred to as paranoid.

Are you referring to the Archbishop of York?

American here. I'd only say 'Happy Holidays' if I were addressing someone I don't know very well. It's sad, but some people can get quite irritable over being told to have a Merry Christmas when they don't actually celebrate the holiday.

(and yes, I said it's sad. It would not offend or annoy me in the slightest if someone wished me a Happy Chanukkah or some other religious holiday I don't celebrate. It happens, especially on big holidays such as Eid, and I wish it back to the person. It's a holiday fgs it's not someone trying to convert you.)

spot on, cakewench. Well done. Keep using Merry Christmas. America is the Land of the Free.