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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To prefer Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays!

195 replies

kittya · 22/12/2010 22:26

Its too American isnt it? Its just something my friend told me about her workplace, that they arent allowed to send Happy Christmas cards to clients anymore but, Happy Holidays.

Maybe I just need to move with the times Smile

OP posts:
gorionine · 23/12/2010 09:24

Unrulysanta, I think Muslims are really trying hard (me included) to make sure people understand that wherever the "toning down" of Christmas comes, is NOT coming from them.

I was having a discussion about that with the HT of my Dcs school. My Dcs do not take part in the Nativityat Christmas but I really would not want the Nativity to be "retouched" so my Dcs could take part. I am fine with my Dcs watching the Nativity as it is a way for them to learn about someone elses belief but I would not want them to actively sing "he is born the Son of God" when I try to teach them that in our faith as big an importance we give to Jesus, we do not believe he is the son of God.

HT understands that so it is good but he went on saying that the entire school should celebrate Eid to wich I said "I do not think it should, what we as Muslims want is to be allowed to celebrate it (which we are) and maybe a mention of it in school like "your Muslim friends are today celebrating Eid" with a short explanation of what it is about maybe but celebrating it when you are not a Muslim does not make sense IMHO.

I think the beauty is in accepting each other faiths , not mishmashing them out of context to just have another occasion to party.

TheTimesMNer · 23/12/2010 09:30

My Dcs do not take part in the Nativityat Christmas but I really would not want the Nativity to be "retouched" so my Dcs could take part. I am fine with my Dcs watching the Nativity as it is a way for them to learn about someone elses belief but I would not want them to actively sing "he is born the Son of God" when I try to teach them that in our faith as big an importance we give to Jesus, we do not believe he is the son of God.

Why not? I'm an atheist and my children take part. Get over yourself.

gorionine · 23/12/2010 09:31

You raise your kids as you want to and let me raise mine as I wish is that really hard to do?[forced smile]

TheTimesMNer · 23/12/2010 09:34

To be honest yes it is. It is this blinkered unbending and frankly over serious view of words in a school play that has made it a rare thing in some places in Britain. Nativity is a fading tradition in Britain which is partly due to attitudes like yours.

claig · 23/12/2010 09:34

TheTimeMNer, that is a bit harsh. Everybody should be allowed to follow their own beliefs. Many people think it is Muslims or other faiths behind the downgrading of Christmas. But this is wrong, it is only the usual suspects, the political progressives.

TheTimesMNer · 23/12/2010 09:36

No so though is it, as some Muslims won't allow their children to take part. Makes it hard for the teacher with ten Muslims in a class to actively exclude them from Christmas traditions, what do with them whilst they rehearse?

TheTimesMNer · 23/12/2010 09:37

Hardly paints the picture of integrated Britain does it?

gorionine · 23/12/2010 09:37

TheTimesMners, how on earth me saying that Nativity should be a proper Nativity even if it means my Dcs cannot take part makes me guilty of the tradition fading?

activate · 23/12/2010 09:38

I prefer season's greetings to Merry Christmas as the majority of folk I know are secular agnostics whether they admit to it or not.

So if you go to church regularly out of choice, and not to get your child into a particular school I wish you a Merry Christmas and if not Season's Greetings, enjoy the alcohol, food and gifts

claig · 23/12/2010 09:40

But it's always been that way. I remember at my school, some children didn't attend assembly. It doesn't matter. Jehovah's Witnesses don't celebrate Christmas. It doesn't matter, everyone is free. It is progressives who create discord and disharmony in the nation for political purposes.

seeker · 23/12/2010 09:41

"It is only progressives who come up with these policies."

There are no such policies. Claig. Your complete inability to produce any evidence of them proves this conclusively.

TheTimesMNer · 23/12/2010 09:42

Saying your children won't take part is the issue, I don't really care what you think other people's children should be doing.

Bunbaker · 23/12/2010 09:43

OH has several American clients and he has been emailing them with Happy Holidays.
They all emailed back with Happy Christmas

The Happy Holidays is what politically correct card companies write, but real American people say Happy Christmas.

All the Muslims I know find Happy Holidays rather patronising. They prefer Happy Christmas because that's what it is. If Christians are happy to acknowledge Eid then they are happy to acknowledge Christmas.

Unrulysanta · 23/12/2010 09:43

Hi gorionine. Thanks for that - I'm just making the point that whatever the Daily Mail would like to think, people of other faiths aren't undermining Christmas.

Claig I'm so far from being on your side I'm, well, I'm on the other side so please don't draft my comments into your argument. She may be a Muslim but Baroness Warsi is the kind of moral vacuum you'd expect from the Tory party.

claig · 23/12/2010 09:45

seeker, was your MIL right and is it you that have blinkers on? Does your MIL understand the zeitgeist and have you misunderstood it?

gorionine · 23/12/2010 09:46

"Hardly paints the picture of integrated Britain does it?"

respect for each other faith here in the UK, as far as I have witnessed it, really means repect for each other's faith. I really would hat it if it became "integration a la Française".

While the other rehearse my Dcs are watching them rehearse usually they are given a box of toys or some paoer and crayons. hardly unmanageable stuff really.

theevildead2 · 23/12/2010 09:46

^Well, if it is an Americanism, then it has nothing to do with an assumption that everyone has time off over Christmas. That's not what "Holidays" means in America! That's called "Vacation".
To an American, "Holidays" means special celebratory days, like Christmas, or Hannukah, or Kwanzaa or New Year's Day or whatever.
I celebrate Christmas and I like "Merry Christmas", but I have no problem with "Happy Holidays" as a means of being culturally sensitive in a multicultural society.
I think because of the holidays/vacation thing, it's just a phrase that doesn't travel well to this side of the Atlantic^

cloudydays is spot on. I grew up saying Merry Christmas to people I knew celebrated Christmas, or Happy Hannukah to those I knew celebrated Hannukah. Why would I randomly say Merry Christmas to people who might not celebrate it? Happy Holidays covers it all for me.

theevildead2 · 23/12/2010 09:48

Bunbaker real AMericans NEVER say "happy" christmas Wink Merry Christmas quite possibly :)

Unrulysanta · 23/12/2010 09:49

TheTimesMNer - is it possible that a. Traditions aren't being eroded and that b. If they were atheists (like you and me) would be mostly to blame for that?

seeker · 23/12/2010 09:50

Claig - I've just remembered you on this subject before. I had forgotten that the last time I realized - belatedly - that you were actually indulging in a complex tease. I've caught on a bit sooner this time - your last post diected to me was a giveaway!

AbsofCroissant · 23/12/2010 09:50

DP and I were discussing this (kind of) last night, as he was saying that he's been saying "Happy Holidays!" or "happy Diwali!" (I know he's out of date, but we were in India during Diwali and he freaking loved being told that all the time) to people the last few days.

We're both Jewish. We both live in a country which is, for all intents and purposes a "christian" country where xmas is a major tradition, and we both respect that. Obviously, working in non-Jewish organisations, you do get involved in a lot of stuff - there's xmas lunches, secret santas, xmas parties, people handing out cards and wanting to put tinsel and decorations up, which is fine. It's to be expected. But it can be difficult because obviously it is very important for a lot of people, so much so that it seems incomprehensible to them that someone would not celebrate it. It does get tiring if, from end of November onwards until xmas you are asked almost daily "what are you getting for xmas? What are you doing for xmas? Have yo bought all your presents?" and on and on and on and when you respond that you don't celebrate it, you either get shocked silence, an apology(which is nice, but super rare - only one person has actually done this to me this year) or else people forcing stuff on you. And it's not like it's new people every time - one very lovely colleague took about 2 weeks to finally give up on asking me about my xmas plans. For e.g., one of DP's friends found out that he'd never had an advent calendar and was appalled and went and bought him one. Obviously, this was with the best of intentions, but he was so not bothered about never having one it hadn't registered.

I think what I'm trying to say is that I totally understand that it is something that is very important and wonderful to the vast majority of the population of the country I live in, but people must realise that not everyone is nutso about xmas, or even celebrates it. And this is not even just people who don't celebrate xmas for religious/cultural reasons, it could be other people who have, for e.g. lost a family member around this time, or find this time of year very upsetting. That small touch of sensitivity would be greatly appreciated. I have actually got quite upset at times as people are just so insistent on making you want to like it and participate. For e.g. my one manager is Muslim, and said that he didn't want tinsel put on his monitor. So what did people do? Be all "oh, that's okay, I can respect that". Nope. They put a picture of scrooge up on his office and made fun of him. Not cool.

claig · 23/12/2010 09:50

well said Bunbaker.

sorry, Unrulysanta, what you said made sense, I didn't realise you were on the wrong side.

Baroness Warsi is good, although she was pretty shocking on Question Time. That was probably just an aberration.

Himalaya · 23/12/2010 09:52

claig 'Respectful of traditions' is just a nicer, fluffier way of saying reactionary. The need to be 'respectful of traditions' only comes up if a tradition is challenged, because someone thinks it would be a better idea to do something differently (i.e. progress..). Not all new ideas are good ones, but that can be argued out in terms of who benefits and who is harmed. 'it's traditional' isn't a very sensible way of deciding the best course of action, and tends to favour those who hold power traditionally (in this country - posh, old, white men) over those who don't (women, young people, poor people, immigrants..)

Plenty of traditions have been challenged, for the good - corporal punishment, foot binding, female genital mutilation, child marriage, human sacrifice, exorcisms for people with mental health problems, slavery, lack of women's rights. And you can be sure as hell there were folks objecting to change at the time saying 'but it's traditional...'

I am not saying that sending Xmas cards is on par with foot binding, just that the argument from tradition isn't a good one. A better principle than respecting traditions is to respect people.

None of this is arguing to ban Christmas because no one is trying to ban Christmas (except in the fevered imagination of the Daily Mail)

seeker · 23/12/2010 09:55

Claig is joking, people - don;t be drawn in! She's sitting in her Islington living room laughing her organic, fairtrade socks off.

theevildead2 · 23/12/2010 09:56

They put a picture of scrooge up on his office and made fun of him. Not cool

Shock Seriously? How fucking rude!