To have shouted at this dog owner

[swanandduck]

I am terrified of dogs. I can't help it, I've always had that fear. I was walking up the road in the snow yesterday and a woman was walking down, with a ski pole to keep her balance, and her two dogs running around, not on leads. I called out to her asking her to put them on leads as I don't like dogs and she ignored my request and one of them came tearing up at me barking his head off. I was petrified and, when she had half heartedly called him off, I shouted at her that it was a public road and she should have them on a lead. She just walked off and ignored me.
Why, why, why do some dog owners think it's okay to let their pets jump all over strangers, even when the strangers are quite clearly afraid of dogs. On what level do they think this behaviour is acceptable? I always make it quite clear, by putting my two hands in the air and backing away, that I'm afraid of dogs, but the owners never bloody bother to grab the dog by the collar or to have him on a lead in the first place.

Bahrainbabe, your poor dog, not only is it never allowed off the lead in public places (which clearly limits it's opportunities to socialise with other dogs!!) but it is subjected to your DC climbing on/over it and pulling it's tail...

I think it's perfectly okay to have your dog off the lead - with the caveat of being able to control it!

So you need to be able to control it when it gets excited to see another dog on the other side of the street, and when someone wafts a delicious hot dog smell past their nose, when it sees sheep that clearly want to be chased and when a lady dog lusiciously leers at them from a leash... It's unlikely really isn't it? But not impossible, as I've had a v well trained dog. (Which I'm not claiming any responsibility for, he was a failed gun dog and so beautifully trained before we got him!! ). The only exception to his impeccable behaviour was strangely when you put a leash on him and he became incredibly protective and snarly. Mostly you need to be able to control the dog to keep it safe and keep yourself from being sued as the dog's owner if it causes damage.

Can't stand it when people have their dogs off the leash and no control - it's not fair on the dog.

But it is unreasonable to expect everyone to keep their dogs on a leash if they are under control.

Right, I will keep my dogs under control. Always do, especially around those who appear to be anal non-dog lovers.
Can you people who own cats keep them indoors, or on a lead please? And make sure they poo in the cat litter tray as well?
I am frightened of their poo giving me toxicplamosis and the only way to prevent them doing a poo in my garden is to control them .

Are non cat lovers anal too??

It is not restricted to cat lovers. But it is restricted to people who react like Gillian McKeith to a dog minding its own business.

I let my dog off-lead in a deserted street in the snow recently because he was loving it so much. He's great with people but not with other dogs and usually he is on the lead but because of the snow and the fact that there was no-one and no cars around, I let him off. Of course, someone came around the corner suddenly with two massive dogs (on lead) just as I was busy with my lo and he got into a fight with them (lots of noise and spittle but no dog hurt, the usual stuff).

The owner shouted at me and he was quite right. I shouldn't have let him off and I certainly won't do it again. So as someone who HAS made that mistake, no, YANBU and the owner deserved to be shouted at and should have apologised to you.

Dogs smell fear in a flash. It is very dangerous to be afraid and equally so to act afraid. A dog is being a dog and responding to external stimuli. It is our responsibility to respond to our environment and adapt our behaviour to keep as safe as we can.

Of course there are crap dog owners and badly behaved dogs. Equally there are plenty of badly behaved people without an animal.

I;m sorry if it's 'dangerous' to be afraid. I will try to be 'not afraid' in future because that is something I have total control over.

All I'm asking is that people keep their dogs on tight leads around strangers.

Not exactly the most reassuring of replies silentcatastrophe!

I am very scared of dogs. I don't know what caused it, I would like to be able to control it but am genuinely frightened.

Fear apparently smells awful. A reputable dog trainer should be able to help with fear and phobias in the same way that London zoo helps people with spider phobias. It is horrible to be afraid, but yes, it does make us much much more vulnerable to attack. Out of control animals are no fun and very alarming, so we need to find strategies to keep ourselves as safe as we can, so we don't become a target.

A 'tight' lead is a very bad thing it creates aggression. Maybe you mean a shorter lead as they pass you?

Anyway like many others I think controlled well mannered dogs should be allowed off the lead like mine are at the pinewoods, beach, lake district etc. I think it is completely over the top to say that it is Disgusting to see a dog off the lead, personally in the right circumstances I find it quite joyful to see them running and playing just as I love seeing horses canter and gallop.

Bahrainbabe are you truly saying that you would have a go at someone who has their dog off a lead, even if they were nowhere near you,and had the dog under control eg at heel, practicing retrieves/recalls/agility?

I absolutely agree about control and manners and responsability,and don't like dog owners who don't practice this and throw you platitudes when things go wrong. But unfortunately just as there are bad parents who bring up thuggish children there are bad owners who bring up thuggish dogs and we can't tar them all with the same brush or take on extremist measures.
Swanandduck take a look at the dog whisperer Ceasar Milan he talks a lot about body language etc and how you assert yourself and show you are pack leader I think this would really help you:)

I don't understand my dog phobia either! We had a lovely dog (lurcher) when I was a child and it had the sweetest nature. I really wish I didn't feel this way but over the years it has got stronger and stronger.

I cross roads and make detours to avoid them!

weimy you might want to pop over to the doghouse and read the CM if you haven't already...

For anyone who is genuinely phobic of dogs or has a fear of them and want sto do something about it, Pets As Therapy have dogs that can help with this.

Midori

I was totally unaware of the collars etc which is what I presume you are talking about. Thanks for pointing it out, I only suggested him because of the episodes I have seen were modification of body language was useful in adjusting dog behaviour.Be assured I don't do anything like that with mine they are agility/gundog trained and as they are weimaraners only ever work for nuggles. :)

Those of you saying that when your dog is off the lead, someone anal, who has their own dog on a lead, will shout down the road to 'get your dog on a lead', this is not a reflection or comment about your dog, its telling you that their dog is likely aggressive and will attack yours if it goes near.

I think that dogs (unless VERY well controlled)should be kept on leads unless in a dog park/field where people who don't want to be near them can avoid them.

I love dogs but our family dog, when I was a child, was small and nervous of other dogs. Most dogs that are off-lead tend to run up to other dogs to sniff their arses say hello and this would make our little girl nervous and she would growl and show her teeth. Then, other dogs would become aggressive.

We avoided dog parks/fields etc. as you expect dogs to be off lead there. Our dog had her long runs in my nan's large garden. However, it was nice for our dog to get out on the lead sometimes - on paths etc.

Once, two big (apparently friendly) German Shepherds bounded up to our dog to say hello. It very quickly turned into a severe, dangerous fight as our dog growled and they then seemed to want to show who was boss. Nan (who had the lead) tried to pull our dog away but the other two kept coming.

Their owner tried to stop it by grabbing her dog's collar and her dog bit her badly.

It was horrific, lots of blood - human & canine. One of the German Shepherds died as a result of it's injuries, the other was put down due the the bad injuries that it caused to it's owner. Our little dog only just survived.

If these 'friendly', 'well-behaved' dogs had been on a lead this would not have happened.

YANBU OP.

I personally always put my dogs on leads when I see others whether on leads or not and expect others to do the same. Where I walk this is what we all do.

The point about bahrainbabe is that she/he is not saying it about when she is approaching other dogs and hers is on a lead but that if she/he saw any dog off the lead under any circumstances she would yell at the owner. she/he also wants a law passed preventing dogs from ever being off the lead unless you own your own private land.

A dog on a lead is in a vulnerable position. An unsocialised dog on a lead is much more likely to be aggressive and it is sensible to steer clear of dogs on leads unless yours are on leads too. I have seen a lot of people teaching their dogs to be fearful and therefore dangerous. It's sad. People can be so stupid. So... if you see a dog on a lead, avoid it if you can as it may well be dangerous.

silent

what do you do if your dog isn't dog friendly though? We adopted an adult dog a year ago and he doesn't get on with other dogs. He's generally well-behaved but I can't 100% rely that he'll come if he sees another dog. Obviously, he needs walks and exercise off-lead but we can't risk him fighting with other dogs (he's never caused any harm but lots of noise, spittle, bared teeth - but one day he could pick a fight with the wrong dog). When we do take him to the park on-lead, off-lead dogs come up to him and - like you say- things are even worse when he's on lead. Do you have any advice?

"the other was put down due the the bad injuries that it caused to it's owner"

I find that really sad. If people put their hands in the middle of a dog fight, what do they think is going to happen?! One of our dogs bit my DH for the same reason. The dog is completely and totally trustworthy around people, the softest, soppiest thing you have ever known. She always rolls onto her tummy as soon as anyone goes near her or if she is saying hello to visitors as she loves her tummy being rubbed and most people oblige. However, when she bit DH she probably wasn't even aware his hand was there, she was so absorbed in what was going on with the other dog. DH was to blame for being so bloody stupid. The safest way to break up a dog fighnt if you have to physically intervene (eg. if noise won't work and always as a last resort) is to lift each dog by the base of the tail, upwards and away from the other dog, although even then, still best done with gloves on.

Silent, you are correctm people should not allow their dogs to appraoch on lead dogs. Even the nicest dogs can be defensive or more nervous when on the lead. We have a rescue dog that is always kept on the lead if we are not 100% sure of not meeting other dogs and we avoid areas where dogs are allowed off lead (we are lucky enough to have a fenced area for off lead exercise and a sort of private beach)precisely because he is not great with other dogs yet. He is better off the lead, but as he has been attacked by another dog, unless dogs he meets are themselves very well socialised then things can turn nasty, so I don't want to take any risks with him.

My others are completely reliable off lead and will walk to heel off lead all day if asked. However, I always put the lead back on if other on lead dogs are about, to reassure the other dog owner if nothing else and I always keep them in their leads near roads as I feel it's the sensible thing to do.

midori

your dog sounds like ours. we live in London though so not many opportunities for off-lead exercise where you can guarantee you won't meet other dogs. we're working with a trainer on his dog issues but it's very hard to get him the off-lead exercise he needs.

Yes, we are lucky, it's all about management. Is there any way you can substitue off lead time for running or time on a long line? Not quite the same I know, but better than nothing.

It's probably better to avoid areas such as the park if you can and stick to pavement walkng where hopefully you are less likey to encounter off lead dogs. Has your trainer got a rock steady dog you can use to socialise him? One of my main problems is a lot of my nearby friend's dogs are under socialised and aren't suitable to mix with my dog. He is fine with my own other three dogs.