to want a dog that bit me put to sleep?

[pickgo]

I was out for a walk with DS, DGS and mother on Sunday. We walked past a woman with 3 children and a dog on the lead. As we passed her on the pavement the dog leapt up at me and bit me on the chest.
Fortunately I had 6 layers of clothing on so it has only left me bruised, the skin is not actually broken.
The dog owner apologised. She admitted she already had a muzzle for the dog but hadn't put it on this time [OBVIOUSLY!!].
I said her apology wasn't good enough. What if I'd had a baby in a sling, or it was one of the children? What if it goes for one of her children? Told her I thought the dog should be put to sleep.
Ironically, I myself had a dog some years ago that randomly bit people. I too always kept it on a lead but one day it leapt into a pram and I was terrified it would bite the baby. That day I took my dog to the vet to ask for advice. The vet's advice was that once a dog has crossed 'the line' of biting people it will always be a possibility it will do it again. So I had the dog put to sleep. A sad, hard decision but I think the right one.
So, AIBU to want this dog put down? Surely I should be able to go out for a walk without being mauled by an animal and left injured?

I'm also a firm believer that any dog that bites a person should be destroyed immediately. There are far too many dogs needing good homes already and I really don't believe that a dog that has shown such a degree of agression can ever be trusted again.

And as for the OP not being attacked, FFS she has bruising from it when wearing SIX layers of clothing. It would have been a totally different scenario if this was summertime. Or perhaps the dog understands that it can only bite in the winter when humans are decently padded?

Valhalla Not at all a tangent - I think this is at the heart of what's disturbing me. (Though feel a lot better about it now.) That this country is in such a mess with its dog ownership regulation.
It doesn't seem such a big task to me to get some kind of criteria together to judge whether you can offer a good home to a dog. Then get some kind of charity inspectorate to rate you/your family circs/your home/lifestle, say on a 1-10. Fund it thro a dog licence scheme (like what we used to have).
With a scheme like this public would get more educated, people would be more prepared before their dog arrived, bad owners deterred, dogs better cared for, less bites!
I know the scally brigade would evade all this but at least they'd be easier to recognise and deal with when their dogs were unlicensed.
Look at all the efforts made to enforce car tax/insurance - surely living creatures - animal and human - deserve the same efforts?

I disagree that all dogs who bite should be destroyed. In a high number of instances dogs bite because of their owners and the way they are treated.

I've got 2 dogs. I really wish they would bring back dig licenses and compulsory neutering for all dogs/cats that are not intended for breeding. I would also not hesitate to have one of mine put down if it attacked someone.

Re the muzzle, the parents have a greyhound that is always muzzled if it is out. Not because it has ever bitten someone or shown aggression toasted another dog, but because if it ever got loose on a walk it would actively seek out a small animal/ cat and kill it. It has form for that and is only allowed off the lead in their v secure garden.

'So she was in control of it when it bit you?

"it was not out of control"'

That kind of suggests that she was allowing it to bite. If you are in control of a dog you do not let it bite. If yopu let a dog bite then you are not in control of it. end of

re the owner of the dog on this thread.

from the description, sounds like she cocked up

no muzzle, hands full with kids, etc.

but the police reported she has lived and learned and the dog had been traumatised by a bad experience, which is reasonable to take into account, so i applaud the police.

from my own professional perspective, sounds like the dog is nervous of strangers (which would mean the children in its home would be fine, btw)

none of which make it a 'dangerous dog'.
not even in the same ballpar as the killer dog.
it makes it a troubled dog with emotional stress issues, all of which can be addressed with the right management and rehab programme.

it would be a bit previous and an overreaction from the info i have garnered on here to think this dog is at the level of PTS, their are plenty of other options.
Ive dealt with loads of dogs like this

it would be good to able to pass on trainer/behaviour contacts to the dog's owner.
or even point them in the direction of a training forum called dogsey

if the OP could pass that on thru her dealings, that would be great

The general ignorance surrounding dogs, even by dog owners, saddens me so very much.

There are so many different scenarios in which a dog may bite, it's is very wrong to put a blanket 'any dog that bites should be put to sleep immediately' policy. As I said earlier in the thread, one of my dogs bit my DH. It was entirely his fault, he put his hand in the middle of a dog fight. There is absolutely no way on earth this dog would deliberately bite a person, she is the softest dog going, completely trustworty.

I don't believe no dog should ever be put to sleep for biting or attacking a human and I do agree that there are fates worse than death for some dogs. However, where human error is the obvious cause of the bite/attack and the dog is able to be managed in a way where no-one will be further put at risk an the dog can live a fulfilled life, I do not think they should be PTS. I think this applies to almost all dog bite or attack cases.

If the dog in question can simply be muzzled in pubic, why should it be put to sleep?

And yes, yes, yes, there should be stricter regulations for both dog breeding and owning. Poor breeders and poor owners are closely linked sadly.

There's a huge difference between being incidentally bitten whilst doing something stupid like putting your hand in the middle of a dogfight and being deliberately bitten by a dog. One is incidental, the other is deliberate. It's the deliberate biters that I am referring to.

That's not what you said, is it? You said "I'm also a firm believer that any dog that bites a person should be destroyed immediately"

In most cases, dog bites are preventable if the humans around them understand dogs a bit better and act accordingly. Why should an animal be put to sleep because of human error or negligence? It's not needed to prevent future dog bites (proper management is) so are youy saying you think dogs (who are amoral and don't understand the difference between right and wrong) should be put to sleep as some sort of punishment?

depends what you mean by 'deliberate'?

i have suffered anxiety attacks before.
so i was verbally violent to someone.
twas deliberate as i was operating my own body, but i didnt really want to or like being that way.
i was troubled with issues so had reduced control over my thoughts and therefore reactions.

similarly not all dog aggression is the same thing.

one needs to view all incidents from canine psychology (emotions) and background POV, and go from their, whilst also putting the incident into context, which the police appear to have done on this occassion.

You would hope this would be a 'wake-up' call to the owner and it's at least on file. It is perfectly possible for a dog to bite a chest and, a female one, for sure. Thank goodness for all the layers you were wearing.

Nearby neighbour was badly scarred by a dog after it bit her after fighting with another dog (it was loose in the field - and had already bitten its owner). It was not PTS but the owner was visited by police and he promised to muzzle it. He doesn't muzzle it anymore and often takes it for walks when the children are on the way home from school - and children run, make loud noises and are unpredictable. The idiocy of the man makes me shudder. It is a powerful, square chested dog.

Yanbu, i started q thread here recently about my neighbours dog. It jumped at my dd when she was stood in our garden gate and tried to bite her face. She has had nightmares ever since and the dog has taken to hanging over our fence, it's tall enogh to do that! The garden is no longer safe for my dc's to play in. I have tresloved this yet but do think that the dog should definitely be pts

I can see both sides of this. I think Val is right that it's possible to modify this dog's behaviour......but what if the owner is not responsible enough to follow this through?

I would never have a big dog as a pet - people don't seem to understand that a big animal with teeth has the capacity to attack - it's not their fault, it is simply in their nature.

OP - what happened to you sounds horrific and I would have been terrified if I had been in your position.

good points about the owner kangaroo.
of course a dog can bite a chest.

the other guy you menton sounds like your typical idiot.
although casting my professional eye over the details you have given, it sounds like the bites the dog inflicted upon its owner and your neighbour occurred when they were trying to break up a dog fight?

if that is so, then it is called redirected aggression. this means a dog has no intention to bite humans, nor does it necesarily have any aggression issues with humans, they merely get in the way when out of control on adrenaline, not cogntively aware of what they are doing to the people in the heat of the moment.
this heightened 'unaware' state can also continue just after the fight has been halted as well.

its similar to breaking up a fight between 2 kids or even 2 men.
afterward they will often tell you they have no recollection nor idea they injured you.

if that is the case, the dog running around will not automatically be a risk to any people in the park, kids or otherwise.

unless, of course, they get in the way if it attacks another dog.
its appalling he is allowing a dog aggressive dog to roam off lead unmuzzled around other dogs.

aggression isnt often across the species.
sometimes it may not even be generalsied thoughout one species either.
it is a common misconception that if a dog has attacked another dog "that children may be next"

*electra Mon 27-Dec-10 16:02:45

I can see both sides of this. I think Val is right that it's possible to modify this dog's behaviour......

I HAVE ON THAT ONE

but what if the owner is not responsible enough to follow this through?

IF IT WOULD HAVE GONE AHEAD, ONE IMAGINE THE DOG WOULD HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM THE OWNER

I would never have a big dog as a pet - people don't seem to understand that a big animal with teeth has the capacity to attack - it's not their fault, it is simply in their nature.

NOT QUITE TRUE.
A SMALL DOG WITH TEETH CAN BITE.
ACTUALLY, THAT'S NOT TRUE EITHER.
IT SHOULD BE ANY ANIMAL WITH TEETH CAN BITE.
SIZE ISNT THE RELEVANT ISSUE REGARDING PROPENSITY TO AGGRESSION, ITS DOWN TO TEMPERAMENT, WHICH IS DOWN TO UPBRINGING AND BREEDING.
ITS NOT 'NATURE' FOR ANIMALS TO BE AGGRESSIVE, THAT IS COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE TO SURVIVAL AND EVOLUTION.

HOWEVER, SIZE AND POWER ARE A DETERMINING FACTOR WHEN IT COMES TO FORCE AND LEVEL OF DAMAGE.
HOWEVER, SOME SMALL DOGS, JACK RUSSELLS, FOR EXAMPLE, CAN BITE VERY HARD AND FAST AND HOSPITALIZE YOU.

electra, clutha is right, even a small dog can do serious damage (wasn't there a case of a small child killed by a Jack Russell a while ago?).

And by the same logic you should probably avoid having any contact with other humans, especially men, as they have the capacity to attack and seriously injure or kill, and quite frequently do so. I would guess that statistically living with a male partner works out more dangerous than having a big dog in your home. That's not to say that your husband or mine is dangerous though!

Fair enough if you don't want a big dog, but I love mine (big, gorgeous, loving, cuddly boy) and can't imagine being without him!

What a horrible dog shame it isnt going to be put down, maybe if the next person it bites is a child it may occur to the owner this dog is mad .The same thing happened to me 3 years ago and the owner said sorry thats never happened before like a fool i let it go

Well, I can see your side, but sometimes dogs do go through weird phases when something upsets them. After DD2 was born, one of my dog suddenly turned vicious, bit a delivery man and then bit me on the arm (she was aiming for the postman). A few months of dog training sorted her out and she's back to normal now.

However, if the woman knew her dogs bites, she should have had the muzzle on. My dog is now NEVER off her lead, as much as she has improved, we'll never trust her completely.

how do you know the dog is mad?
is that a clinical diagnosis?

what about the referance to the traumatic experience with the intruder?

are such experiences irrelevant?
(the police dont appear to think they so?)

how do you know the dog that bit you hadnt done it before?

how do know the owner of this dog hasnt learnt from her mistake and will not manage tho dog differently from now on?
(the police appear to think she will?)

WOULD PIGKNO be able to pass on some training/behaviour options to the owner if i give them?

Yes, the 'unaware'/coming down after a fight sounds totally right Clutha for this dog - thanks for that.

My friend (22 stitches in hand and side) is herself is a big dog owner (rotties) & did not want it PTS but did at least want it to be muzzled when out for a walk because how other dogs and young children behave you just can't legislate for, especially if the dog has a history for fighting/biting. It did bite its owner when he intervened in the dog-fight and, afair, it had bitten the owner prior to this, but under what circs I don't know.

No idea of the breed, it's all black (very shiny and sleek looking fur) and looks a bit like an Akita, with its tail curling over it's back, jowls and ears also v similar, but it's squatter & shorter in size, and has a squished muzzle like it's run into a wall.

electra "I would never have a big dog as a pet - people don't seem to understand that a big animal with teeth has the capacity to attack - it's not their fault, it is simply in their nature."

Quite the opposite is the case actually, it is not in a dog's nature to attack. Quite the opposite in fact, which is why, when so many owners mishandle their dogs and subject them to what is basically huge amounts of abuse from children (being poked, prodded, climbed on, pulled about, woken whilst sleeping etc) that dog attacks do not happen more often. It is only because of the inherantly good nature of dogs that most of them when faced with such things will simply get up and walk away or quietly (and miserably) put up with it.

Well, I am no expert on dogs so happy to stand corrected. But isn't the problem that a lot of people don't know how to handle a potentially dangerous animal properly? Is it not in a dog's nature to attack if provoked?

Yes, I agree that small dogs can be dangerous too - I knew of one case where a small dog was put to sleep. From what I've observed though - big animals in particular require a lot of care.

Well apologies if i got my facts wrong but i wasnt in a postition to be questioning the doctor when my mum was in such a bad way-57 stitches on the inside and outside of her arm ,scars the whole way up - from a lovely family pet.....I do hope this irresponsible dog owner that allowed her dog to bite the op and cause her injuries no matter how minor doesnt allow herself to forget the dogs muzzle again or next time it might be a childs face that gets biten!!

Anyhow i stumbled upon this forum by accident and dont want to set off on a bad foot so hi :)

midori1999 Mon 27-Dec-10 15:27:19

That's not what you said, is it? You said "I'm also a firm believer that any dog that bites a person should be destroyed immediately"

In most cases, dog bites are preventable if the humans around them understand dogs a bit better and act accordingly. Why should an animal be put to sleep because of human error or negligence? It's not needed to prevent future dog bites (proper management is) so are youy saying you think dogs (who are amoral and don't understand the difference between right and wrong) should be put to sleep as some sort of punishment?

And that is why I qualified what I said in my next post (or next but one, whatever). To clarify what I meant. Again, there is a vast difference between a deliberate bite when a dog 'goes' for someone, and an incidental bite when someone gets in the way of a dog fight etc.

I was bitten badly as a child when another dog went for my dog (who was on a lead). The dog was not put down. It had not gone for me but my dog, and to the best of my knowledge it had never bitten before nor since.

The type of bite the OP is describing is totally different to that. The dog went for her. It doesn't take an awful lot of imagination to imagine the damage done if it had been a child.