To think that Women are being tricked?

[Truckulent]

Now I'm just a simple man but after a snowed in day yesterday with very little sport to watch and England getting thrashed in the cricket so I couldn't even watch the highlights of that, I spent a long time reading MN.

And the threads I read about housework and washing just amazed me. I mix with a lot of men and these conversations would never happen, only with women I know.

I think women are being sold this idea of, keep the perfect house, perfect washing and cleaning and make sure Christmas is perfect idea that must be frustrating and very shackling.

I'm going to make sure my DC don't get into this game.

So AIBU to think a lot of women are being tricked and by who?

Men watching sport perhaps?

Some people enjoy having a "perfect" house and doing Christmassy things. If you try to ensure your children "don't get into this game" you can guarantee your daughters will be the Stepford wives of your nightmares.

There are plenty of down trodden women out there, but not everyone who is enjoying a pretend fret about bread sauce is down trodden, you know.

I don't know what happens round your gaff but , carpets need hoovering occasionally, clothes need washing and there is lots of work involved in Christmas. That food doesn't buy itself or cook itself.

Problem is, often the male of the species for some reason, doesn't feel responsible for making of this happen... (dh is an honourable exception here).

I have to disagree there. I have lurked and posted on plenty of forums which are predominantly male, and men have plenty of opinions about all of those things (not just about women, but about other men).

Well you could stop watching sport or MNing and do some basic boring household tasks that even an non-tricked person can see have to be done - hoovering, washing up, filling the washing machine, ironing. Then the tricked-one can get on with the nice bits that she may actually enjoy.

Who does the housework in your house?

I do the housework. We do shared care of the children.
So I'm the only adult here.

i agree that many women are tricked into thinking that a messy house should reflect on them personally and not on their partners. even in households where that work is divided equally it's still seen to reflect more on the woman.

in our house i'm the one who points out what needs doing if somebody is coming to visit or stay but my DH does at least half of what needs done.

if the house was not clean and tidy then i would feel ashamed but i'm not sure he would...

Eh? Are you talking about the few people who have major stress about this or those that like a tidy house, which research has shown, that makes for a happier home and happier children?

Humans are naturally competitive, like most animals. Women tend to be competitive about household things and childrearing, either because society tells them that's their priority or because they're naturally wired that way, or a mixture of both.

Men are competitive about sport, success at work, and being seen to be strong and cool. So they invest a lot of time and effort in this while women invest a lot of time and effort in the household matters.

Whether this is right or wrong is another issue, but if women weren't competitive about household things then they would be competitive about something else and the same goes for men.
There is no way I would sit through a rugby/cricket match or spend hours training for a sport. That doesn't mean I feel men are "tricked" by the sports industry because they happen to like doing these things. A lot of women and some men gain pleasure and satisfaction from keeping a clean house and providing a lovely Christmas and don't consider themselves to be tricked into it. The issue arises when women are forced to spend all of their time cleaning/preparing because they have a judgemental and unhelpful family or partner or because they lack self esteem.

it is true though fluffles, whenever my house is messy (all the time) it is always me that gets the comments not DH

A tidy home is fine, mine is most of the time.

I think part of it is washing machines with all the features, dials, displays etc. I do two washes one dark, one White, same temperature. If there's a stain I scrub it or soak it beforehand. It cleans our clothes.

And all the products for cleaning, I mean how many?
And the 'War' on bacteria,what about hot soapy water? it worked for Florence Nightingale.

I just think an industry has built up about how clean your house should be and women are the ones who should feel guilty about it.

I read posts yesterday saying along the lines of, if anyone touches my washing or washing machine but me they are in deep trouble.

you think that's bad, you should hunt down one of the threads debating the virtues (or otherwise) of having a loo brush. People really care.

"You very rarely hear men complaining that so-and-so should never have bothered having children if she's going to work fulltime"

Actually I have heard plenty of men saying that. Or that she shouldn't have had kids if she is planning to work at all.

I have never heard that so-and-so should not have bothered having children if he is planning to work full time, though.

I have never heard someone whispering that "Look how inappropriately this child is dressed, where are his father's eyes"

I have never heard of a MIL who tuts over the state of the house and un-ironed shirts and tells the son in law that he is not taking proper care of her daughter.

I have never read a list how a father should prepare the family when he is going on a business trip, involving frozen meals for a week and to-do lists for everybody..( see here )

I could go on for ever.

So of course those conversations would not happen with men. If his house is a tip, his shirts wrinkled and his kids running around without a scarf and a hat, most people will still judge her. And yes, it would certainly be helpful if you can raise your DC differently.

My sister can't stand anyone else doing the washing up as they just Don't Do It To Her Standards. Is quite happy for other people to dust, hoover, put washing on and hang it out and complete all other household tasks, though.

I agree with you Truckulent. It is a trick..
But it's not in Women's mind.
WHen I was a student I shared a house with a Greek man and an Iranian man and we were ALL as bad as each other when it came to keeping the place clean, but guess who the landlady, or guests ( any of our guests!) would hold responsible for the mess? Yup, me...
My mum was very lax and had never taught me feminine wiles such as housework and I had the shock of my life when I realised that, in the UK, the responsibility for keeping a housefull of three adults tidy fell to me, because I was a woman...

[although to be fair DH sees dirt more than me, but that experience taught me a lot about life]

My MIL goes on about my DH doing anything....poor man has to put the children to bed sometimes.

Off out now with DC. Housework can wait.

We have a messy house, it's small and we've got a lot of books and records and toys and other 'stuff' and I work from home alot and my work is not a tidy kind of work...

as far as I'm concerned we're both as responsible as the other for the mess, but I am very aware that other people do not see it that way and because I am aware it is me, not DH, who is judged then I do probably expend more energy worrying about making things presentable before we have visitors.

it is ridiculous.