to expect a toddlers parent to stay overnight in hospital?

[wheresmytractor]

Last night I spent the night in hospital with my youngest son who is 16 months old. He has a possible chest infection, brochial wheeze and needed a nebuliser, inhaler, steroids, antibiotics and a nose tube with oxygen during the night.

Right next to us another toddler is brought in about 7pm. She was about the same age as my little one and had the same thing, except she actually sounded worse, a very croupy cough and quite distressed.

The nurse started to run through how the chair folds out to a bed so the mum could stay when she says "Oh, i'm not staying, i'm shattered" . She left 5 minutes later. This poor little girl howled and whinned ALL NIGHT. She would only settle a bit when she cried herself to sleep (only to wake not long after with her cough and needing her inhaler) and when a nurse cuddled her. I felt so so sorry for her. My little one needed lots of cuddles last night and I got only a little uncomfortable sleep, but I would not DREAM of leaving him there all night alone.

The mum waltzed in at 11am this morning, and I thought what a bloody cow for leaving her daughter distressed and alone and for placing that additional burden on the nurses.

So am I being unreasonable to think this?

[tholeon]

unwind i wouldn't judge anyone going through that but i think your friend's baby probably felt, in someway, love and comfort from the fact she was there. I didn't read all of that old thread but from what I did read I found Mozhe's decisions very hard to understand.

[Unwind]

MrsDeVere - you obviously have more insight than me. I am very sorry for your loss.



But I think there may be a difference with NICU babies, perhaps especially those who are very prem, in that the parents sometimes can't bear to allow themselves bond in the first place.

I don't mean that it necessarily would aid recovery, but that staying away, and not trying to bond, might seem like a way of preparing for either bringing home a baby with a higher level of needs, or with an unbearable loss. I don't think that thread was a wind up.

[OnthefirsdayofMrsDeVere]

I do understand what you are saying and I think you are showing a great deal of compassion.

I have no experience of having a premie or very sick new born so I do not know what its like.

I have had two babies since DD died and the temptation was there to protect myself 'just in case' but I know this isnt the same.

Personally I believe that it is always best to spend that time with your child. It is precious and indescribably painful but it is time you will never get back.

Of course in some circumstances things are better unseen, in the case of a dreadful trauma perhaps?

But I know that I feel priviledged and lucky to have spent that time with DD. Unfortunately I know lots of parents who lost their children in different circumstances and they didnt get that chance.

[MillyMollyMardy]

I started reading this thread assuming that the OP was NBU and the more I've read I've started to think no-one knows the situation of the other mother without knowing her.
I lost count of the times I was on delivery suites being monitored in my pregnancies, Dh works away so I was on my own, no food or drink offered and I couldn't go and get any as they wouldn't let me. The hours I spent with ds on a paediatric ward when he had gastoenteritis or broncheolitis; again nothing to eat or drink and no way I could leave him.
Then I've had the reverse I could feel the judging of the nurses in NICU when I only went to see dd once a day for a morning or afternoon. They didn't bother to probe my circumstances; no immediate family, couldn't drive due to a cs, husband away and a 3 year old who hadn't had me at home for 10 days as I'd been in hospital. My reasoning was at that point he needed me more. They just judged. Can you tell I still feel angry.

[Unwind]

MrsDeVere - thank you, I've a great deal of admiration for you.

Millymolly, yes- I had to listen to the horible paediatric nurses gossiping about other mothers who had stopped coming in. I knew they probably bitched about me in the same way. One nurse would bully me, and tell me that the other mothers were coping better than me, that she had coped better when she had twins, that I needed to pull myself together and stop my hands from shaking. Though she never said it, I somehow jumped to the idea that I might not get DD back unless I looked like I was coping brilliantly. So I started wasting precious time dressing properly and applying make up, and tried to keep a grin plastered on my face. I am sure I was judged for all that too. I was just desperate to do whatever it took.

I made a formal complaint, but it wasn't taken seriously. There was no provocation, so she probably got her kicks from tormenting other vulnerable mothers in the same way. The SCBU was not a supportive place.

[OnthefirsdayofMrsDeVere]

Unwind

How awful for you. Disgusting woman, howre she? Those people stay in your head dont they? Far longer than the ones that were good.

When DD was on the teenage cancer unit on the 12th floor I used to knit teeeeeny little hats for the scbu unit down on the ground floor. Little egg cup hats. I used to turn them out in 20 mins. I remember doing lots of green ones for StPatricks Day.

I used to deliver them and wonder how the parents coped with their tiny, delicate little babies being so poorly.

I think (but cannot know of course) that it was very like life on the 12th floor. So much can happen in an hour. A baby can be ok one minute and deathly ill the next, this is true for the teenagers with cancer, one day all looks bleak and the next they are pink and well (or sitting up playing x box).

All that stress and worry, up and down, hopes and fears, bleeps and alarms, terror and yearning.

[Sirzy]

Unwind how awful for you. When you have an ill child that is the last thing you need. In a way staff on kids wards need to be there as much for the family as the children. When ds was so ill in january every member of staff (even the cleaners) seemed to go that step further to make you as comfy and at ease as possible. We were in 2 weeks ago and at one point the ward sister came out of ward round and sat with me for a good 10 mins because i was so frustrated and upset.


It's a shame not all staff seem to have that caring attitude you would expect

[MillyMollyMardy]

Unwind, sadly people do judge it's human nature, they are also not always supportive or considerate. As MrsDeVere said try to remember the one's who went the extra mile instead, they are always around too you just sometimes have to look a bit harder.

[Unwind]

MrsDeVere, I have a couple of those hats (for hygeine reasons they are never used on more than one baby, so you are told to keep them). I always wondered who took the time to knit them.

Yes, there were kind staff there too, but when my complaint was not taken seriously (eventually recieved formal reply which said that that the especially nasty nurse only said those things, and more, because "she was trying to encourage me", I felt that management were behind the bad ones. Judgement is natural, but staff should be trained to understand how it may be from the parents' perspective. People who are devoid of compassion should have no place working on hospital wards.

[MillyMollyMardy]

I agree empathy is essential and I would hope that despite the hospital saying there were no grounds for an enquiry the nurse got a bloody good rollicking.
I'm not defending her comments or behaviour which sound atrocious but when I was on the ward both before and after my dd's birth I was frequently upset by comments or behaviour of staff. When you are stressed, tired and hormonal staff simply getting on with their jobs in a not particularly compassionate way is upsetting.

[galbers]

It is impossible to speculate on circumstances; as others have said there may be other small children at home.

Social mores do change, do bear in mind that not so long ago (well perhaps longer than I like to think when I was a child!), parents were not allowed to stay overnight when their children were admitted to hospital.

[confuddledDOTcom]

I've spent many a night in hospital with my eldest and I've seen it quite a bit :( I've even known parents be referred because of it.

Last time she was in was about 2.5 years ago (got the medication right since then) and I wasn't allowed to stay overnight because I was pregnant. Her dad stayed with her, his parents took a shift and my parents took me in to do a shift which we'd share between us, taking it in turns to eat and her dad would sleep through the day. It's the only time I've left her in hospital alone apart from 3 days after she was born when I was sent home before her and before we went to transition ward.

Last week we faced a similar dilemma, it looked like she was having another attack. Her dad is working the other side of the country and wouldn't have been able to get back (he doesn't drive to work) and my mum was on holiday with my youngest so it was down to me and Dad. I couldn't stay because I'm pregnant but I don't drive so he would have had to leave to take me home. Fortunately they never kept her in or I'm not sure how we would have handled it, but you have to work something out, they come first.

Earlier this year I slept on a pull out chair with my youngest next to me because she was ill and wouldn't sleep in her nice cosy cot, she wanted me.

[hairymelons]

This thread is making me cry, thinking about the lovely, lovely staff who took care of DS (and me, I cried for days!) when he was a tiny, poorly baby.

So sorry for those of you who weren't treated so well. They make such a huge difference for good or for ill when you're at your lowest ebb.

WRT the OP, we were in a bay with a 6mo girl who screamed all day and night. She was so thin and ill looking I assumed she either didn't have a mum or she didn't care because I couldn't imagine leaving such a poorly baby. The staff occassionally came and put her dummy back in and gave her feeds but she didn't get cuddles. Her screams were ear curdling, especially when she was nil by mouth prior to a test. It was really distressing for everyone and I have to admit I was judging hard. We used to sing to her amd put her dummy back in etc. and one of the mums would wheel her round in the pram but we weren't allowed to pick her up.

I felt bloody awful when Her mum turned up the next day and it turned out she was by herself with 3 other kids and struggling with bus fares etc. Her baby had been born at 26 weeks and she was also running out of babysitting favours after 9 months in and out of hospital.

So YANBU to judge, we all do it because you can't imagine leaving a sick baby. I'm trying not to do it anymore though because you never really know someones circumstances.

Incidentally we're back in hospital (bronchiolitis this time) and the nurse last night said she would never leave her child alone in hospital no matter what Spose she knows how stretched they are.

[hairymelons]

This thread is making me cry, thinking about the lovely, lovely staff who took care of DS (and me, I cried for days!) when he was a tiny, poorly baby.

So sorry for those of you who weren't treated so well. They make such a huge difference for good or for ill when you're at your lowest ebb.

WRT the OP, we were in a bay with a 6mo girl who screamed all day and night. She was so thin and ill looking I assumed she either didn't have a mum or she didn't care because I couldn't imagine leaving such a poorly baby. The staff occassionally came and put her dummy back in and gave her feeds but she didn't get cuddles. Her screams were ear curdling, especially when she was nil by mouth prior to a test. It was really distressing for everyone and I have to admit I was judging hard. We used to sing to her amd put her dummy back in etc. and one of the mums would wheel her round in the pram but we weren't allowed to pick her up.

I felt bloody awful when Her mum turned up the next day and it turned out she was by herself with 3 other kids and struggling with bus fares etc. Her baby had been born at 26 weeks and she was also running out of babysitting favours after 9 months in and out of hospital.

So YANBU to judge, we all do it because you can't imagine leaving a sick baby. I'm trying not to do it anymore though because you never really know someones circumstances.

Incidentally we're back in hospital (bronchiolitis this time) and the nurse last night said she would never leave her child alone in hospital no matter what Spose she knows how stretched they are.

[QueenStromba]

I've only just come upon this thread and I've only read the first two so maybe someone has made this argument already.

From the age of 18 months to about 5 I was in the hospital every other week with my asthma. I even had a favourite nurse. I'm pretty sure my mum didn't sit in the hospital all those nights. I imagine that the woman described by the OP was in a similar situation and knew it would be better for her child if she was well rested when he came home. I can pretty much guarantee that that woman has barely any sleep when her child is at home and not breathing well. When I was 23 I came home for Christmas and started having an asthma attack, my mum had been at the pub and had fallen asleep on the sofa. I was planning to wake her up and tell her I was getting a cab to A&E but when I made it into the living room the sound of my breathing made her sit bolt upright and she had dialed 999 before I could say a word. The sound of an asthma attack is as wired into her brain as the sound of a baby crying is for most women. I imagine this woman is like my mum and just welcomed the rest you can only get when you know that someone else will be looking after your sick child for the next 12 hours.

[hairymelons]

This thread is making me cry, thinking about the lovely, lovely staff who took care of DS (and me, I cried for days!) when he was a tiny, poorly baby.

So sorry for those of you who weren't treated so well. They make such a huge difference for good or for ill when you're at your lowest ebb.

WRT the OP, we were in a bay with a 6mo girl who screamed all day and night. She was so thin and ill looking I assumed she either didn't have a mum or she didn't care because I couldn't imagine leaving such a poorly baby. The staff occassionally came and put her dummy back in and gave her feeds but she didn't get cuddles. Her screams were ear curdling, especially when she was nil by mouth prior to a test. It was really distressing for everyone and I have to admit I was judging hard. We used to sing to her amd put her dummy back in etc. and one of the mums would wheel her round in the pram but we weren't allowed to pick her up.

I felt bloody awful when Her mum turned up the next day and it turned out she was by herself with 3 other kids and struggling with bus fares etc. Her baby had been born at 26 weeks and she was also running out of babysitting favours after 9 months in and out of hospital.

So YANBU to judge, we all do it because you can't imagine leaving a sick baby. I'm trying not to do it anymore though because you never really know someones circumstances.

Incidentally we're back in hospital (bronchiolitis this time) and the nurse last night said she would never leave her child alone in hospital no matter what Spose she knows how stretched they are.

[JustKeepSparkling]

(OT - Riven so so glad you made it to London to see DD1, hope you are having a good time with her, despite the worrying)

[deaconblue]

gosh I didn't know you were even allowed to leave your child at hospital. When ds was in hospital for 3 weeks I even had to take him with me when I went for a wee because there wasn't always someone around to look after him.

[tholeon]

Shoppingbags you can't take them with you if they are attached to wires/ feeding tubes etc which lots of them are, lots of the time.

Riven I don't think that posters on this thread mean to be judgy of anyone in circs such as yours, though I can see how it might feel like that. I agree that there has been a lot of emphasis on mothers here - children have two parents.

I hope that if I ever had a friend or neighbour with a child with a long term illness I would do all I can to help with pracitcal support, not just messages of good will, and try to galvinise others into doing the same.

[Loie159]

YANBU!!!it made me really really sad to read that post. no matter what peoples circumstances are leaving your child (she was only a 16month odl baby FGS!) alone at night in hospital is surely a last and only option?! However, my dad told me (and confirmed by my nan) when he was 3 he pulled a pan of boiling water overhimself. He was in hospital for 2 and a half weeks and parents WERE NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO VISIT!!!! He was in a ward with other children and my nan was besides herself at not being able to see him - but the nurses said it would upset the children when their parents left so in the end they let her peek at him through the window in the door! This was 60 odd years ago but just shows how much attitudes have changed!

[FrostyAndSlippery]

Of course not idrilis. Quite the opposite.
I really think most people on this thread are distinguishing between people who have good reasons to have to leave, and those who (appear to) leave because of a lack of care for their children.

[GothAnneGeddes]

Bit sad about all the nurse bashing that's crept onto this thread.

A few points.

NICU/SCUBU are notoriously underfunded. Unlike adults and children, neonates in IC rarely get 1to1 care because there is not the funding for sufficient levels of staff. (the Bliss website is a good resource for further info on this).

All paeds wards/NICU/SCBU/PICU generally have 24 hour visiting for parents. This actually isn't the for the benefit of the staff (believe me), but because for children, when poorly, it's natural they want their parents around to comfort them.

As for neonates, it's great for parents to be around as much as possible to build a bond with their baby and it's really good for the baby too. Nurses aren't just glad you come a lot because we're lazy wenches, but because we actually care for our babies and families and it's nice to see them happy.

Ideally all NICU's would have room for parents to be able to room in, but sadly money and space are a huge factor, especially as most NICU's are on site with general hospitals, so space is at a premium.

Believe it or not McDonald's charity has actually paid for and built many facilities for parents to stay long term with their child if they're at a children's hospital. So if anyone is feeling charitable:

rmhc.org/