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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I didn't challenge my colleague on this horrible thing she said AIBU?

79 replies

bupcakesandcunting · 16/12/2010 11:46

I have a work colleague who I thought was a really nice girl. She is younger than me, only 24 and she seems really level-headed and intelligent. However, we were chatting at work yesterday about our respective partners/husbands and how we worry about them getting involved in fights when out in groups. I said that I feel that men tend to attract negative attention just for being men and that girls are less likely to be physically attacked than men. Then my colleague said this;

"Yeah it's more rape with girls than fights. But most of them ask for it." Shock

I did a shocked face and went quiet and carried on working. Then she went "They go out in belts. That's asking for it."

I was in shock. Honestly shocked. I didn't challenge her on it and I feel angry at myself because I won't see her now until after christmas and I don;t feel like almost 3 weeks later I can go up to her and go "you know what you said about women who get raped asking for it? Well you're wrong..." But I am so cross Angry It took me totally by surprise. Was notm expecting that from her.

OP posts:
maltesers · 16/12/2010 17:57

Immature girl and totally thoughtless IMHO. . . when, if ever, she ends up in such an unfortunate position she wont say that woman deserve to be raped. . .

sethstarofbethlehemsmum · 16/12/2010 17:59

she might though because people often do blame themselves. Sad

maltesers · 16/12/2010 18:01

This kind of thing makes me cross. . . its like people saying cocky things as if they know everything and are totally thoughtless. . . .
as if they are so perfect
as if they are so clever
as if they will never be poor
as if they know everything and anything
as if they are so bloody brilliant at everything.

For example, yesterday in the gym , 2 women talking, who are clearly quite sporty and co ordinated, they mentioned some one they know saying how that person couldnt possibly do such and such cos he/she was so un coordinated. . . . .big heads eh !

chipmonkey · 16/12/2010 18:29

xstitch, sorry you went through that.Sad

xstitchsnowscene · 16/12/2010 18:45

Nobody has answered my question yet though. Honestly I want to know the answer.

cupcakebakerer · 16/12/2010 18:48

A silly thing to say. She'd probably just not thought it through properly before opening her mouth. She's probably not thought about it since and if you challenge her, probably wouldn't remember it! I certainly, certainly don't think girls/women EVER ask for rape. Looking at it from a different perspective though, I do worry sick about my younger sister who gets so drunk on nights out that she can barely speak etc. Of course that's not 'asking for it' but I do think it leaves her more vulnerable to such an attack. It makes me shudder just to think about it.

cupcakebakerer · 16/12/2010 18:50

And no YANBU. I always wish I'd said things after the event, but to do so after is too late.

Goblinchild · 16/12/2010 19:35

'Nobody has answered my question yet though. Honestly I want to know the answer.'

It depends what sort of a person you are though.
I challenge opinions I really disagree with and argue the point. I am fast off the mark and verbally confident and fluent in arguments.
You may be more concerned about being polite and maintaining a relationship with the person.

theevildead2 · 16/12/2010 19:55

xstitchsnowscene was not the OP goblin her question was,

OK those who say women are asking for it please tell me what did I do to deserve to be raped? I really would like to know.

I think she has misread some posters though as I don't belive anyone on this thread has been on the side that says women can "ask for it"

Goblinchild · 16/12/2010 20:02
Blush Sorry, multitasking is obviously beyond me at this stage of the term! No one deserves to be raped, ever. But a rapist will seize an opportunity if he sees the chance. Saying that does not condone the act in any way, and I think that's what some posters are trying to say, me include3d.
xstitchsnowscene · 16/12/2010 20:11

I don't think I did misread. For instance altinkum said: 'she does have a element of being correct by her stance "asking for it".' and others have agreed with that.

Ulysses · 16/12/2010 20:19

I've just seen a couple of pictures of my friend's 17 y.o. daughter and her friend before they go off on a night out to a Christmas party and I amazed at how grown up they look like in their little dresses.

What I didn't think though until I read this thread the most people would think it would be asking to be raped.

That is so shocking and sad that some people have that attitude.

There's a very good advert on Scottish TV which dismisses the myth that women go out to tantalise men to the point that they deserve to be raped.

Curiousmama · 16/12/2010 20:21

xstitch so sorry you've had to read such drivel.

Baublepink · 16/12/2010 20:44

Being too generous, I would hope she meant (in a very badly phrased, immature way) is that women who go out wearing more revealing clothing may attract unwanted attention from dubious sorts and thus make themselves more vulnerable to potential rapists, who are mainly opportunists.

Also, women who go out in more revealing clothing are possibly more likely to be out for the evening (rather than the daytime) and drinking alcohol (as opposed to soft drinks) which are two other factors that can make women more vulnerable.

Obviously no woman ever "asks" for rape because that would automatically make it consensual sex not rape. Rape is non consensual sex, so no matter how a woman is dressed she is not asking for it literally or otherwise. The choice of phrase "asking for it" is also... sneering and arrogant, but it's oft repeated (in the manner of say, "too posh to push" or "kneehigh to a grasshopper" so she might be more sympathetic but picked a generic term that sounds very wrong without meaning it quite that strongly. IYSWIM.

She's definitely ignorant, but hopefully, not meaning to be so horrible. I would put it behind you as a girl with more living to do and experience to gain yet. Shocking to think that she could be a member of the jury on a genuine rape case though. Imagine that.

jester68 · 16/12/2010 20:48

Sadly that is the way it is looked at by a lot of people.

I was raped at the age of 17. And no I wasn't wearing a "belt" but that should not even make a difference.

I was wearing black trousers, vest top and a jacket.

When it went to trial HIS lawyer held up my underwear for the jury to see. It was not even sexy ,just lilac bra with matching knickers but he seemd to think it was relevant to the case even though if he had not tore my clothes off they would never have been seen.

Even though there was evidence of trauma and violence he was found not guilty as he had some friends who lied for him.

I still have never got over it

Curiousmama · 16/12/2010 20:52

jester Sad That is so awful.

xstitchsnowscene · 16/12/2010 21:00

Shock jester I hope your lawyer pointed that out. Experiences like Jester's are the reasons many women don't report rape.

Adversecamber · 16/12/2010 21:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MissMarjoribanks · 16/12/2010 21:21

Fucking hell jester. Sad That's just awful.

Original poster
bupcakesandcunting · 16/12/2010 22:05

Jester, do you mind telling us the outcome of your, sorry, I mean HIS trial? Fucking fuming here.

OP posts:
LaraJade · 17/12/2010 01:53

The last time i was attacked was by a married colleague - he had asked me over for a coffee as he said he was depressed and needed support. I was vulnerable + depressed myself - maybe not thinking straight. Was wearing uniform tunic + trousers, long coat + ponytail. We finished talking, i got up to leave and he changed totally - said no, i've locked the doors so you will stay. I got to the front door first but had to fight him off. I never flirted with him in the way other colleagues have so why me? I didn't report it - felt numb but that's depression for you.

jasper · 17/12/2010 02:15

Lara, that is shocking.

OP , I am sure others have said it, but your young colleague's viewpoint is, sady, very common.

She is however very young. Still plenty time to change her mind.

I don't believe a lot of the things I thought (half a lifetime ago ) at her age. ( never ever thought most women ask for it)

CheerfulYank · 17/12/2010 03:16

Lara and jester I'm so sorry. :(

I lost my virginity at 19. I was wearing extremely short shorts, yes. I was drunker than you'd think humanly possible, yes. I went and lay in his bed and kissed him, yes.

But I still said no. I still cried and asked him to stop and bled all over the damn place when he didn't.

So, not asking for it, no.

perfectstorm · 17/12/2010 03:38

Obviously someone has every right to wear what the hell they like and not be raped. But for the record, I was Women's Officer at university a few years back and sent some research from the states.

It seems the most common attire worn by a rape victim in the USA? Jeans. And obviously most rapes are not carried out by strangers in the street. Most rapists are known to the victims.

The answer therefore is: never wear jeans and know no men. Otherwise, you are asking for it.

For the record I do know someone who was raped by a stranger when drunk and wearing a short skirt. She was also a 15 year old virgin and looked about 12. I suspect the latter was the main attraction for the piece of shit who did it. How anyone can think being young and naive "deserves" that I do not know. Most of us are young and naive and most do not get raped by strangers in the street. The risk factors are far less avoidable.

Personally I think women espouse these views because it makes them feel safer. If rape is something that happens to stupid women and can be avoided, then it will not happen to you. A far more comforting belief than the reality.

WillieWaggledagger · 17/12/2010 04:16

god that analogy that likens rape to burglary makes me so angry.

For a start, women are not property that should be owned and guarded - that idea is one of the things that give rise to rape in the first place.

secondly, if you ARE going to use that shit analogy, even if you invite people into your home, give them food and a bed for the night, and they take something without permission it is still stealing. likewise a drunk woman wearing a bikini in a dark alley is not asking to be raped any more than any other woman

regardless, it is a stupid analogy for ignorant people.

OP, it has happened to many of us - wishing you had said something but being speechless at the time. I bet you'll be ready next time though!

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