Am I missing something re tuition fees...

[Pheebe]

OK so tuition fees are not repayable until AFTER uni and AFTER you are earning over a certain amount

So why should your families pre-uni economic status be taken into account? Surely support for disadvantaged students should be focused on ensuring they have access and maintenance grants to support their daily living expenses while they are studying. Once they have their degree surely they on an equal footing to all other graduates?

Two students, both in a 40K job, one from a 'poor' background one from a 'professional' background. Who is more disadvantaged at that point by having to pay off 30K worth of debt?

What am I missing?

But surely university is for people who are "gifted" in the loosest sense of the word at a subject.

Yes I am empowered by my degree and that is exactly why I feel they are worth paying for. Much more so than a house. I bought a house and had to sell it - it no longer exists. My education however can never be taken away from me.

As a renter I do not feel at the mercy of whoever is in government, this is because I earn a good salary because of my degree.

maybe it's better that less kids go to university though those who are brightest and work hardest should still be able to go no matter their social/financial background. I don't understand why they want the uni numbers to be so high - kind of dumbs down the idea of higher education.

"He knows that really he wont be earning so much but to also have a 40K debt hanging round his neck is making him think 'fuck this'. So a potential scientist of the future is now wondering whether starting off in Tesco's might be the way to go."

Find it hard to believe that a truly bright student would consider going and working in Tesco in a very boring job rather than doing something interesting. If he will really earn so little as a scientist then he won't even have to pay back this "40k debt hanging round his neck", will he?

Honestly think parents talking like this ^ do their children a disservice.

Peppa, my point wasn't really how much they would have to pay back. Just more would as many people want to be saddled with around £27K for a job that wasn't '£40K'.

MW/nurses was just an example, many will rethink their career paths if now faced with such a large debt, esp if they do want to buy their own home. What mortgage lender would not consider such a debt?

I don't see my renting as dead money, it gives me a roof over my head.

I suspect I will have to work until I am about 70, I don't expect to live much beyonf that as I have health problems. I will therefore be working for most of my life and have no need for a house to act as a pension.

Oh and I think 9k a year is steep for what you actually get at uni but have no problem at with the repayment system - find it very fair and don't think it disadvantages the poor.

Riven I would encourage your son to go to university at any cost. The range of careers and the prospect of career progression are so much higher if you have a degree. I know he wants to be a researcher but a lot of people change their minds on what they want to do whilst at university.

Again because my degree enabled me to earn a good wage I rent houses that people would love to buy. I guess I am at the mercy of my landlord in that he could sell. But feel no more at the mercy of my landlord as a renter than I did as home owner at the mercy of my bank or employer.

Yes, but some people are gifted in subjects that don't give so much choice. You walked away from a higher salary - that was a choice and that is why you feel ok about it.

And anyway I don't see why we should only place a person's employment value on how smart they are.

"classydiva Sat 11-Dec-10 09:57:54
Statistically graduates earn in excess of 40% more than the average joe who has not been to university. I can't vouch for those who take stupid degrees. But if you take a Maths degree yep I could personally guarantee you wont be in a job paying less than 40k.
"

Nice one, can you top up my salary then?? I have a maths degree, am currently managing 11 staff and i don't earn 40k

Renting does put a roof over your head but that is all you are getting for your money. If you own a home then it gives you equity which can be invaluable particulary as you move into old age.
Add to that you have full autonomy over the house

I agree melezka that intelligence is not the only way to measure a person's value.

My point is that I had the choice of a salary because I had a degree - that is how valaable they are.

And my point is that it was not the degree per se but the type of degree that it was. Those who are not gifted at the things which are currently valued by employers have less choice.

I have a pension and savings that will see me into what old age I have.

I have to pay for care for relatives and we did not want them to have to sell their home. So we sold up to liquidate our assets and have access to cash. Ironically we sold up in the crash so their was no equity - owning a house actually cost us money! I would have been better putting my £30K into a high interest account and renting.

I acknowledge that melezka which is why I would be happy to pay more for my degree.

"If he will really earn so little as a scientist then he won't even have to pay back this "40k debt hanging round his neck", will he? "

At the moment you start to repay when you are on £15K, which isn't much over the minimum wage. Is that changing then?

There are university league tables that focus on just that.

agree Riven - if these students are now having to pay these high fees - are the unis going to be providing a good enough standard of education to warrant these fees? This should give students more power in the end - I doubt it though.

Am I not the only one?? :o
I agree with your point about one good thing about paying directly is that people will start demanding value for money, which hopefully means the quality of the degree you get at the end will be higher

One of the underlying problems with these fees is that they (even further than has been the case up till now) make an economic model the basis for what should be judged on educational grounds. It won't give the students better education; all the energy is going to go into balancing the books rather than figuring out best models of teaching.

I dont have a degree and my DH does. It is only in the last year that he has started earning more than me, and that is because he has a job that is nothing to do with his degree. In fact, he was told in the interview to downplay his degree as it put employers off and suggested he wouldnt be happy in the job for long.

And my sister has a maths degree and has just started her graduate job - working behind the counter at a high street bank.

"At the moment you start to repay when you are on £15K, which isn't much over the minimum wage. Is that changing then?"

Yes, it is going up to about 24k or 25k (forget the exact figure). On these salaries you only have to pay back a few quid per month.

Also, they don't even enforce this 15k rule atm. When I graduated I started on 21k and they said I didn't have to pay anything back yet as the repayments would be so low and I live abroad, so it would be pointless transferring such small amounts. Now on 26k and they will review my repayments again in April.