Am I missing something re tuition fees...

[Pheebe]

OK so tuition fees are not repayable until AFTER uni and AFTER you are earning over a certain amount

So why should your families pre-uni economic status be taken into account? Surely support for disadvantaged students should be focused on ensuring they have access and maintenance grants to support their daily living expenses while they are studying. Once they have their degree surely they on an equal footing to all other graduates?

Two students, both in a 40K job, one from a 'poor' background one from a 'professional' background. Who is more disadvantaged at that point by having to pay off 30K worth of debt?

What am I missing?

As a good maths graduate you can choose a lower paid occupation, but that is a choice you make. As an Oxbridge graduate with a first I was aware that I could pick my salary. I did and chose to become a teacher, at the time I think I went in at under £20K. But that was an informed choice. As I just said on the other thread I would have happily started to pay my fees back as a young teacher if they were spread over my working career.

Ronshar can you tell me about the policy to educate everyone to the lowest denominator. As a teacher I missed that one.

Riven, Cable basically admitted that it would not be possible, indeed it would be illegal, for the govt. to prevent parents from paying their kids fees upfront. So those parents who already fork out for private school fees will have no problem finding 9K per year, leaving their kids with no debt to pay. So the class system will become even more entrenched in favour of the haves.

The other point is that there really isn't only one type of clever, though we have acted as though there is. We have forced all those students who are spatially, emotionally, artistically and any number of other ways clever fit themselves into an academic mould.
And not only are we making it difficult for poorer students to access university, no matter how bright they are, but we are not providing any alternative for students who are 'otherwise' clever.

To add to that -- meanwhile, those who do take up the loans will have to pay early repayment penalties if they choose to pay them off faster than wxpected, e.g. with a lump sum. Thus maintaining the interest.

Riven, has he thought about going to university in Europe, say, in the Netherlands or Scandinavia? It might be worthwhile him taking a gap year and living there for a year first to pick up the language, but these days, plenty of European universities are beginning to teach exclusively in English, and I suspect with maths/physics he wouldn't be particularly disadvantaged by the language issue anyway.

I had to sell my house and probably will not be able to buy another. I honestly don't care, it is just brioks and mortar. I think we have to get over the assumption that we all have a right to own property.

I was gifted poor and would have been happy to pay for my degree. My degree has transformed my life from an abusive, poverty stricken and hopeless one to one where anything is possible. I have a job that I adore and that alone is worth a six figure salary and a life time of debt.

Why do people have to pay penalities on early repayment of their loan, surely we should allow people to clear their student debt quickly if its what they want to do.

I think the answer, Riven is that generations above who profitted from good times aren't willing to share the opportunities with the younger generations.

Riven is that not unusual in academia though (am presuming he is an academic). That is a lecturer salary. After 20 years most academics would be readers or profs and earning 50 - 60k? His personal circumstances and lack of opportunities I am presuming have stopped him climbing up (and yes I realise this is totally unfair)

Yes a midwife on 21k will start paying back immediatly but will pay about £7.50 a month. Think they can manage that!

Hudd If it does work like that then presumably it's because of wanting to get the full interest on the loan - the same reason they don't let you pay most mortgages off before they want you too, without a hefty charge.

maybe if there is going to be a lack of graduates like scientists etc then the the companies that employ them will pay their costs and have the graduate bound to them for a few years to pay back their investment. other countries do this. Same with medical degrees etc, maybe the government will have to start sponsoring jobs like teaching, social work etc if they want people to continue in these lower paid graduate jobs which demand a degree on entry level.

ISNT- Guess your right just seems wrong that the Government is seeking to penalise people who wish to clear their debt ASAP

I agree that the fees are off-putting but I will still be encouraging my children to go to university if that is the route to a job they will enjoy doing. A generation who will probably not retire until after 75 really need to try to find a job that could keep them as interested as possible for those years.

However little the monthly repayment amount is, the fact of the loan will presumably prevent people getting mortgages. An outstanding debt of tens of thousands is not going to look good to a mortgage company.

And the idea that less wealthy people step even further back from wealthier ones by not owning property, and paying rents which are equivalent to mortgages instead, is bizarrely depressing.

I don't see why it is depressing. I don't own my own home and pay rent equivalent to a mortgage and it does not bother me in the slightest. I have a roof over my head and a lovely one at that.

I don't think the loan will necessarrily stop peole from getting a mortgage but it will obviously depend on individual cases.

Not sure about this, but I think the teaching 'bonus' that was already offered is actually going too?

I would say a lot if engineers etc would join the military, but with military cuts there will be less sponsorship places there too.

Languages are a big problem - they are hugely important for the economy but not always well paid, they will be some of the first departments to goz

If 2 graduates with 40k each get together in a relationship they are at a disadvantage debt wise of 80k if they want to buy a house and will probably still be paying for their education when their own children are ready to start theirs!My ds is at college and a lot of his friends are not considering uni now because of this.The job situation is dire whether you have a degree or not.I really think education IS a right otherwise we are placing a persons employment value on how much debt they are prrepared to be saddled rather than how smart they are.Once EMA stops thats another whole section of young people shafted and who thinks it is only a matter of time before parents are asked to contribute towards FE fees otherwise loans a possibility there too.It is good to see young people taking to teh streets again I thought this country had gone to sleep but am pleasantly surprised.

Owning houses is very important in this country because the value in them is the best kind of 'pension' they are what pays for your care when you are elderly and sick. If you rent you are at the mercy I'd whoever is in government.

But tingle you have already said that you had choices. Choices with being gifted, choices because of your degree, and, ok I'll say it, an upbringing clearly so unpleasant for you that it was a very clear decision to escape it.
It needs o be recognised that we are talking about a monetary system which is heavily heavily influenced and affected by social and emotional factors. You aren't bothered because you feel empowered, because you have had the ability to choose.

But if those two people have a life time to pay off their debt I do not see it is an issue. I keep saying it but I would far rather my dd went to university than bought a house.

tingletangle- Renting is dead money where as with a mortgage and homeowner you get equity