To think that my HV is ridiculous...

[linziluv]

I took my son, 2 yrs 7 mths to his 2 yr health check today. Everything else seems OK but as he's missing letters off words and not communicating as he "should" be for his age, my HV has insisted on referring us to speech and language therapy!
This is apparently our fault as he still occasionally has a bottle at bed time, and clearly not that children develop differently!
What did people do before SALT?! Did kids go to high school either mute or babbling like a toddler?! I think not!
Is it really wrong to find "weets" (sweets) and "ight ight mummy" really cute!!?

DS1 is under SALT for atypical speech sound problems. I was so wrapped up in that that I didnt even notice DS2 was struggling with misplaced sounds until the HV came out and said it. At first I found I thought she was wrong, but 3 months later I asked for a referral for SALT and hearing - turns out he has hearing loss like his brother and will need SALT in the future. He's 2.7.

YABU. I went through SALT as a child 25 years ago and it is important.

If you feel the appt is not necessary then you can opt out but have you seen any other professionals with your ds @ all, like sometimes slt come to stay and plays have you ever seen them at all? then you would be able to tell if this hv view is very different to what you have heard from everyone else, or if others are thinking along the same lines?

I am a bit surprised personally if she has referred him just for some unclear sounds in the words, because my ds of similar age (just 2 months younger) misses out some sounds too (ight for him would mean light not night cos he doesn't always say his L) and does tend to say tat instead of cat and those kind of things, but i have seen slts in stay and plays loads of times and professionals see him daily @ childrens centre and generally people tell me his language is quite good for his age, so wasn't aware this was a huge issue for them? had been lead to believe the prounociations are things they normally grow out of.

but maybe just go along and see the slt for one appointment and see their view, unless you can see some informally beforehand at the childrens centre to see if they do think its worth him being referred.

i think yabu if you take offense about it as the hv is probably only trying to help but just see if you can get any 2nd opinions from other professionals to reassure you and decide whether u would really need the referral

btw mine still has bedtime bottle too but noone told me it affects the pronounciation. i do think its out of order for the hv if she said its "your fault" due to this!

I wnent into DD's 2 year check all fired up to demand an SALT referral, and then wept when the HV suggested it without prompting. Waiting list was over a year for us BTW, so definitely worth getting on it.

Goodness your HV is like gold-dust - whether she's right or wrong she has identified a potential problem and is prepared to mobilize a digit to do something about it.

She may be spouting crap - I've never heard one spout anything else. On the other hand though she's recommended a referral for something that takes a very long time to come through. Is there any harm in going with the flow. By the time the appointment comes ds may have stopped missing sounds and if not the referral might be helpful. Nothing lost either way.

It very sad that she hasn't been more sensitive about dealing with it though. I'm sure you wouldn't be offended if she had said "everything seems fine and you have a lovely lad. He is missing some sounds though and although this will probably right itself in time, the referrals are a long time coming and if there is a problem it will be better to address it long before school."

IMO they aren't that bright or astute but at least you have one that appears to be prepared to do some work.

I have not said it's unnecessary! I just feel he is very young, but as other people have pointed out, this may be because of the huge waiting list! If this had been explained by her in the first place I wouldn't be feeling so shit!
I have had exceptionally bad HVs since DS was born so maybe IBU but is more effective communication from her so much to ask?

what does "not communicating as he "should" be for his age" mean? that sounds like more than missing letters to me

anyway, I don't see the problem, take him to SALT if he doesn't have a speech problem then he's had a nice chat with someone (in my experience SALTs are lovely) and played with some different toys and if he does have a speech problem then it's caught nice and early and can be dealt with before he starts school

a bottle would only affect pronunciation as far as I know if it was in his mouth so regularly that he was talking round it, or if he was having it instead of eating and drinking normally (they don't build up the right movements for speech)

you may have misunderstood; your bad experiences with HVs in the past may have made you a tad defensive

this HV is on the ball, and acting in your child's interests

Don't feel shit

Do ditch the nighttime bottles though

If you call them bockles mind, I shall wash my hands of you

In my area, the wait is up to 3 years for SALT. DS2 was referred at 2yrs3months when he had NO speech (not even babble). He first got seen when he was 4yrs8months - and only one month off starting reception!

YABU, some areas have an incredibly long waiting list for SALT.

firawla, your DS sound exactly like mine...I've always had a lot of involvement with professionals as had bad PND...and have always been compliant and nobody has mentioned his speech until now.
She said his speech was slow for his age, asked if he had a dummy, nope, does he still have a bottle, yes occasionally...ah ok, that's why then...he should not be on a bottle at his age!

I would take up the offer of your DS being referred to a SALT. He isn't too young. I think your DS will be fine though. He is saying words and I'm sure his pronounciation will get better. The reason I suggest the referral is because waiting lists can be long so it is advisable to get him on the books in case he does need a little help.

The bottle at night is an insult to kids with speech problems. It has nothing to do with it.

My child has a speech disorder. Speech therapists can be great. They can help you understand your child's language/speech abilities.

If your DS is assessed by a ST and all is well then you will feel a weight has been taken off your shoulder, alternatively if he needs a bit of help they will be able to offer it. Friends/families who haven't had/got a child with speech problems can sometimes come out with stupid things so please be aware of this! A professional will offer the best advice.

I'm not convinced a nighttime bottle has any effect on speech.

Both my DSs were free of bottles and dummies at 12 months. One was BF to a month, the other to just under a year. I didnt smoke in my pregnancies or let anyone smoke round them. They both have severe glue ear, hearing loss and speech problems. So sometimes its not what you do or dont do, its just one of those things.

Our GP banned the HV from seeing ds after a whole load of inappropriate concerns.

You don't have to do what the HV suggests however if your ds does have a SAL problem it could affect his learning to read when he starts school. If it were me I'd see the SALT. It costs nothing and you will also discover whether your ds's cute speech will self correct or whether he'll need help.

I had planned on going ahead with SALT regardless, but I feel loads better after reading most posts...it does seem they refer this young because of waiting lists which makes alot of sense.
He was referred to a paediatrician due to his "obesity" at 6 months who laughed and said come back when he's two, he's on highest percentile now but still normal! Will leave it to the experts again this time!
Perhaps HV get such a hard time as they only seem to pop up when "problems" present, I just feel that their communication skills need more work to deliver the "criticism".

My son was referred to speech therapy at a young age, I thought It was a silly idea but went along with it, now i'm extremely thankful, at 4 years old he is behind with his speech but as he was referred early we've had help with his attention through the council and the teachers at school work alongside the therapist... someone else at one of the group sessions had to fight to get her son on the waiting list. My son has benefitted so much and the therapy has helped us comumicate. We have also dicovered he may have something wrong with his ear so may be a reason, this was through a checkup with one of the doctors their. On the other hand my friends son was referred and after one session was discharged. I think better safe than sorry.

Can i also say the therapst said its nothing to do with bottles and dummies, with my son his lack of attention meant he wasn't looking at our face so wasn't learning to form the words...hes a very busy active child

I think some HV go looking for problems that simply don't exist. In my case I had a HV who had no experience of dealing with prem babies. Some of the things that happened to ds scared her witless so I'd always get a 'is everything okay' call from the GP after one of her visits. It got so farcical that the GP had enough and banned her from visiting!

ds2's SALT helped us get him on to bottles... at 16 months he was still incapable of sucking from them or any cups att all and my boobs were knackered! Paeds were also delighted to find he'd started bottles and both paeds and SALT encouraged him to keep the dummy as it helps excercise his jaw muscles.

So in that respect she's off the mark. However like others have said, we're all tuned into our own kid's speech... I was always surprised when i had to translate for my older two (both advanced speakers) as anyone not used to their speech patterns had trouble understanding them as babies.... and similarily i often can't understand a word the playschool kids say to me as i'm just not used to the peculiarities of their speech.

I must say, I've had some very constructive advice so thank you.
I don't think he has real problems but like you said, it's costing me nothing so better to be safe than sorry.
I really do believe I've been mega unlucky with HV so far (about 5 have been involved...so much for continuity!).
This was more a rant about how my HV came across today...she defo could have explained better and got her facts straight about teats affecting speech.
Although I see the point of referring young, it does seem that lots of toddlers develop later with no speech problems.
We've had nursery saying his concentration has been off this week but he's had a bad cold which obviously may affect his hearing at the moment.

OP I got to tell you it is as you likely found out at the " growth concern" appointment

Incredibilly satisfactory to get told by the professional that you reluctantly agreed to get refeered to that you were right there is nothing wrong with your child..

some HV do bully there is no doubt about it and bullying is perceptive to the person whom feels bullied. there is a lot of training out there on how to listen and speak to people sadly not all HCP has access to this or are willing to go on the training. in this case I think it is relevant you feel bullied as that is "your feelings " no one can claim you are not bullied if you feel that way.. and it is also apparent that your HV didnt listen well to you. she overrode your opinion. neither imo are acceptable to do.

Havign said all that I would go to the appointment only to be able to smugly state " Like I felt there is nothign wrong with my child" [fmsile]

I'm 24 too, and certainly not a young mum :)

My nephew is 3.5 and has only really started speaking at all in the last 3 or 4 months or so. I have no idea if my sister was referred to SALT by her HV or not, but I know from how worried we all were that if she had I'd have hoped my sister would have gone to the appointment. We tried not to pressure her because we knew she already felt bad he wasn't responding as everyone considered appropriate (even though in all other ways he was (and is) a brilliant bright entertaining little boy). The difference for him was nursery. Since he started going 5 days a week 2-3 months ago he's become a different child, you can't keep him quiet now.

Is he missing many first sounds? e.g. saying "at" for cat or "og" for dog?

If so, this is a red flag for speech disorder and needs to be looked at. The example you give ("light") is not necessarily (as /l/ is a later developing sound), but the HV may be aware he is missing initial sounds. Certainly we have told HV's to seek referral where initial sounds are being deleted/omitted.

In any case, referrals are not an indictment of you or your parenting. The HV is fulfilling her duty of care to your son, nothing more an dnothing less.

As for what happened before SALT? A lot of people with communication disorders never achieved their potential. I work in a secondary language unit for teenagers with normal cognitive development but severe language disorders e.g. one student cannot communicate in sentences, using only phrases e.g. "me know, you see, go house, my mother, see cousin?". I say this to you as a prospective nurse rather than as a mum in this instant. Your child is talking at 2 so chances are all is well.. but you should take it upon yourself to learn a bit more about communication disorders. It will stand to you in your future career.

I know he'll be fine...his only problems are he doesn't speak in sentences, i.e "I want a drink"...he'll just tell you "rink"...he has loads of words in his vocabulary and will repeat most words...it's literally just some words missing their first letter, which I'm not afraid to say i'll miss when he grows up!
I fully intend to go to prove them wrong!
He doesn't have a bottle every night...he sometimes asks for his "bot bot" .
I know I'm not defensive about all HV...I'm not that kinda person...I just feel like they are judging me from when I completely lost the plot with PND! Thinking of changing surgeries when I have this baby...at least I could have a fresh start, although I know they would still have notes, they'd only know me as I am know IYSWIM?

instance

It's only odd words...I've been through his vocab and there isntca single letter he can't pronounce...for example, he says "ight" for night but certainly says "no" ok! And "nanna"...I suppose he struggles mostly with L's...
Yes, that was a stupid comment before my brain was put in gear! Of course SALT is an amazing thing for some toddlers who would otherwise carry on through life with difficulties.
My main point was how I know I could have had the same conversation with another mum so much more differently...you don't have to make her feel useless! I do think there are some bad HV...mine is defo one!