to feel sad that 3yo dd might never be able to achieve her potential due to tuition fees?

[bytheMoonlight]

I look at dd, who is due to start nursery in January and wonder what is going to happen if one day she decides she wants a career that means going to university.

I feel so upset that her chances are being blighted before she has even entered education. We could offer her little financial support and the thought of her leaving with all that debt is beyond comprehension and would not qualify for help.

I feel so sad about this.

But even if they do a crap mickey mouse degree I still dont see how it matters. If they do a degree in, I dont know, cbeebies, they are unlikely to get a job which pays enough for them to pay anything back!!!

It simply means that some people, probably the ones on the middle salaries again, will be paying more back for longer compared to now. However they will be earning more money long term anyway.

Does this not make sense? Perhaps tuition fees for a medical degree will end up as 60k or something.

However a doctor will earn, what, perhaps 1500000 over their life time (based on conservative estimate here - many would earn much much more). That means that tuition fees are something like 0.00005% of their overall earnings.

If they dont go to university and decide to get a minimum wage job then they are going to earn considerably less and be much worse off overall!

It will be tough Brecon. Not doubt about that. Having said that many, many people have managed it.

Brecon - he will still qualify for a student loan won't he? And he could get a part time job? Those would cover living expenses no problem and again they are paid back in the same way - only when he can afford them!

BreconBeBuggered - There is no substantive change to the living expenses as far as I know - a small increase to the maintenance grant for children from poorer families is the only one I know of.

There is no point worrying about it at this stage tbh, just start saving as much as you can, she might not want to/or be academic enough to go to uni anyway

It is much worse for those with teens bue in higher ed in the next couple of years, they really are fucked

joni - what do you mean 'many people have managed it' - the fees haven't ever been 9k. they might have managed with 3k tuition fees - but we are talking about trippling it here.

Well at least in this country we have free education for all children until the age of 16. Many countries dont.

You don't pay it back until you are earning £21k (I think it was £15k for me) but you accrue interest as soon as you graduate - so those in lower-paid jobs will pay back more across their lifetime than those who can afford to pay it back sooner. I know this is simply how loans and debts work, but for this to apply to something that no so long ago used to be completely free seems to set a terrifying precedent.

YABU but only in the sense that there really isn't any point in spending time worrying about something that is so far in the future that you don't really have any control over, and as others have said the fees are facilitated by a loan so she will still have the opportunity to go she'll just have to work out if the benefits justify the costs which if she's bright enough and has a professional career path in mind they most likely will.

Also you have 15 years to save, even if you can't afford much now putting a small amount away on a regular basis will still make a difference.

holly - we also have clean water - but that doesn't mean i agree with my children being saddled with 30k plus worth of debt

But it is such a small proportion of your wage. And you will earn more overall.

I really do not see how anyone is fucked. Might make people take their degrees more seriously though and spend less time drinking and more time in the library...

I have no chance of paying mine off any time soon. I pay around £140 a month but see that as the cost of having a well paid job - and the luxury of spending 3 years of my life studying something I loved.

It is not fair and it is such a difference yes but it really shouldnt stop anyone from going.

'My daughter is 3 at the moment, so anything could happen in the next 15 years, but at the moment I expect we will be in a position to pay her university tuition fees.But I have no intention of doing so. The thought of the money she may have to pay back will I think help people really think about what it is they want to do.'

Applauds thecoalition. Exactly!

thefurry - how does an 18 year old know if the benefits are going to outweight the costs? there's quite a big risk involved here. Obviously if you are going to do medicine its probably clear cut - but say your skill is geography - you probably have no idea what job you will eventually do and the salary involved?

and for the poster this might be a longway off but for some of us its causing problems now - trying to get into uni amongst the stampede to miss the deadline

peppa - your example is based on current tuition fees and so is worthless. we are talking about 3 times that level.

dreamingofsun - but the payments will be proportional to the degree of financial success you have. That is a MASSIVE hedge against the consequences of not doing as well as you hope.

Ok so if your skill is geography...I dont know what people do with a geography degree but say they become a teacher. They will pay peanuts back each month until they are say a headteacher and even then they wont pay back that much a month.

If they got a really good job they could afford to pay more back.

If they didnt get a job or had a low paid job they wouldnt pay any back.

If they did an unskilled job they would still earn less overall.

And without meaning to be stereotypical here, many of my friends worked for a few years and barely got above the threshold to pay anything back. They then stayed at home for a few years before going back to work part time. They dont earn above the threshold so dont pay anything back. Ok so the debt is still there but it doesnt affect them - it isnt counted for mortgage applications etc.

The point about free education up to 16 isn't completely irrelevant here. There's only so much money in the pot, and I personally would rather it was spent on making sure that everybody who left school did so with a high level of numeracy and literacy. This is IMO, far more likely to have a positive effect on the disadvantaged in society. When that's a done deal, focus on everyone having the opportunity for meaninful training/education between 16 and 18.

It would be nice if there was enough money for free university education, but there isn't, and there never was, to sustain the volumes of people going to uni from around the 90s onwards. It was affordable when there were far fewer people doing it.

D

Erm ... explain to me why it is worthless please?

The mechanics are exactly the same, in fact in terms of montly costs they are better. Currently we pay back 9% on anything over 16k ish I think. The threshold is rising to at least 21k if not more.

Ok so they will pay them back for longer but they will still be better off than if they didnt earn over the threshold.

YABU

dreamingofsun - £140 a month under the current system would be £95 under the new system.

YANBU. And I too have been out demonstrating. I think it is possible to live in the now, while also thinking about what the long-term future holds for your kids. Plus this is going to put off poorer kids, regardless of all the arguments about how it really shouldn't. Thus market forces will dictate that even more not-that-academic rich kids go, while the academically bright poorer ones miss out.

The one upside is, as people have said, that there is time for things to change. We'll be waiting a while though. I feel incredibly sorry for all the kids aiming to go in 2012 and their parents. Talk about pulling the rug from under you.

Yabu to star a mawkish sentimental clap trappy thread about an important issue.

Does she sometimes lisp at you through wide tear filled eyes.. " but the threshold for repayment is very low if you lice in certain and more affluent areas of the country.. Mommie ... "

Sheesh

Like Coalition we probably could pay for the DS's uni and their living expenses but we have no intention of doing so.

They can do what we did, work and study and party and live on $6 for a fortnight and come out of it with a very strong appreciation for how much life costs and what you need to do to get anywhere. Some of the best years of my life TBH. My uni debt was only $8K but DH's was closer to $20K, we scrimped for another few years and paid them off.

Mum did used to feed me when I visited though but DH's Mum used to do his washing for him if he dropped it off.

YABU

If your 3yo decides she wants to go to university then she will go. There is nothing stopping her.

Parents need to move away from the idea that they are 'putting their kids through university'. This will no longer the case - kids are putting themselves through via loans and will repay from their salaries once they get good jobs.

If you want to help out then feel free to give her money she could otherwise borrow. It wont stop her putting you in a home when you start dribbling on yourself at 90 though.

I do agree that is seems unfair that students will now pay so much more but due to the way it is paid back if they are genuinely clever enough and determined enough to do a degree which they need to get a better job then I dont see why it should stop them.

The country needs to make savings. I would rather they came this way than have them taken away from the NHS. People can choose to go to university. They will only pay them back when they are making a decent amount of money.