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AIBU?

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Original poster

to think that tractors etc should be used to clear the snow

69 replies

Unwind · 07/12/2010 11:28

With thousands stranded on Scotland's motorways last night, supposedly due to a lack of snow ploughs, I can't help wondering why they have not asked for help from farmers, bulldozer operators etc.

If clearing the roads was really impossible, surely they could have got people to safety? Or at least given them information, blankets, food etc? Friends who were trapped in a line of cars overnight never saw any police.

OP posts:
carocaro · 07/12/2010 11:33

Why did they get in their cars in the first place and make what most people could see what terrible weather on the way, it was on the news the night before!

That I don't get. Was it a life or death dash or something?

Bramshott · 07/12/2010 11:34

They do use tractors as far as I know - at least they do on the lanes round here. The tractors can't get through if there is stationary traffic on the roads though.

carocaro · 07/12/2010 11:34

And it you are going out it crap weather take supplies and blankets etc.

Why should others eg: farmers etc put their lives at risk because other can't listen to or watch the weather or be more prepared?

byrel · 07/12/2010 11:35

They do pay some farmers to use their tractors to clear the snow

Original poster
Unwind · 07/12/2010 11:36

It wasn't expected to be quite as bad as it was. Besides, many people are not secure enough in their employment to have the luxury of not doing everything they can to get to work.

The snow started falling during rush hour. I don't think that many would have anticipated being stuck on major motorways overnight.

OP posts:
kathyb1 · 07/12/2010 11:40

round our ways the farmers have been doing this since the 1st day - it's only down to them that anyone can get out of the village at all.
apparently they are contracted to do it.

what we still need is the gritters to melt the ice left behind.
these are council owned i think
we haven't seen a single gritter lorry here.

i've been gritting our road by hand - not that i've had any thanks for it from the locals!
now we've run out of grit in the bins so i can't do any more.

GrimmaTheNome · 07/12/2010 11:42

surely they could have got people to safety
Which 'they' is this, who can themselves magically get through snow? Hmm

Why should 'they' hand out blankets and food when surely at this point anyone getting into a car ought to know to take responsibility for that themselves?

The police don't have an infinite number of 4x4s and may well have more serious issues to attend to.

Tractors do clear roads in a lot of rural areas, especially if they are dairy farmers who need to be able to get the milk tankers through.

As agricultural vehicles aren't allowed on motorways, farmers might not want to go out of their way to do that - and may be a bit busy keeping their animals alive etc

stickersarecurrency · 07/12/2010 11:47

Goodness yes. All those farmers sitting at home enjoying hot chocolate and watching River City could have taken their tractors out illegally on a motorway past all the cars blocking the route and then what, melted the snow with magic farmer dust?

Hmm
Original poster
Unwind · 07/12/2010 11:49

"they" being the army/police, given that 1000s were stranded in genuinely exceptional circumstances

the powers that be, transport minister etc, should have ensured that anyone using agricultural vehicles to clear motorways (including moving stationary vehicles out of the way) were an exception under the law, and even paid to do so

OP posts:
Original poster
Unwind · 07/12/2010 11:50

tractors can be used to tow stationary vehicles out of the way, and also as snow ploughs, if they have front loaders

OP posts:
stickersarecurrency · 07/12/2010 11:58

I hear what you're saying and it's true that in some rural areas farmers are contracted to clear minor roads. But in the space of a few hours, in darkness and with the difficulties of accessing a motorway I don't think it's realistic to expect any authority to be able to pull that off. It's not like there's a government database of John Deere owners.

I'm sorry. I live in an area where rapid significant snowfall happens all the time and yet we manage to avoid major incidents. Probably because people don't panic, are properly prepared and drive sensibly for the road conditions. The central belt aren't used to it so sometimes shit like this happens. Such is life.

stickersarecurrency · 07/12/2010 12:00

And in this weather morv farmers have their work cut out feeding the poor beasts and ensuring water supplies remain functional. It's not their job to maintain traffic flow.

tabulahrasa · 07/12/2010 12:09

I live near the M8...

it started snowing at 8 o'clock yesterday, we got about 6 inches (possibly a bit more) of snow in a few hours, by the time I walked to my daughter to her (closed, lol) school at 8.30 the roads were pretty much impassable. I knew at 9.30 that the M8 was blocked.

Now I feel sorry for the people who set off for work at half 7 and got stuck for hours on the roads - but as far as I can work out (it's being reported as people being stuck for 15 hours - that doesn't add up to first thing in the morning), anyone stuck overnight set off in what can only be described as blizzard conditions onto a road that was already blocked...

I think it's a bit unreasonable to be complaining that no-one pulled them out to be honest

GypsyMoth · 07/12/2010 12:14

youbseriously expect the 'army' to bail out these feckless travellers????

Dexterrocks · 07/12/2010 12:16

My sister in law was stuck on the M8 from 2pm yesterday until 3.30am today. Tractors would not have been able to get in to clear the road as it was completely packed with traffic.
She left for work around 5.30 so it was not too bad when she got into Glasgow. Once at work she realised she needed to get home but so did the rest of Glasgow. She left at 2 in the afternoon.
It wasn't the amount of snow but the amount of traffic that caused the problem on the M8.
We live in the NE of Scotland and it is generally farmers or workmen with JCBs who come and dig us out - but it takes time. There are only so many of them and a lot of road to uncover, so they have to concentrate on the main routes.
I agree that Glasgow has to do more to prevent this sort of jam but I am not sure how they can stop people getting into their cars and trying to get home.

GypsyMoth · 07/12/2010 12:17

by closing the roads??

Original poster
Unwind · 07/12/2010 12:18

true, but with temperatures as low as they were last night, I'd be surprised if there were not fatalities. It is a bit harsh to reckon that is tough luck for them. With lines of vehicles stuck for 16 hours, there was a lot of time to track down machinery which could have helped clear the roads.

I think that people were trapped longest on the M80 and M74

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GypsyMoth · 07/12/2010 12:20

but who is insured to actually drive all this machinery??

domesticsluttery · 07/12/2010 12:22

Kathyb1: you can buy grit yourself if the bins are empty. We got some from Travis Perkins last week, it is only about £6 a bag. Even if they are out of stock you can put your name down to be contacted when the next order arrives.

We aren't gritted here either.

Yulephemia · 07/12/2010 12:22

One of the problems is employers being too feckless to say to people "The workplace is closed - don't come in", rather the message people get is "If you don't come in we will dock you a day's pay", so people struggle in only to be sent home again as soon as they arrive.
Most people's workplaces are shrinking at the moment, and we all know that bosses favour the employees who turn up no matter the weather, when they are actually sick, etc.
Employers need to grow some cojones and make smart, fast decisions that prevent people being on the roads in the first place.

NormaSknockers · 07/12/2010 12:25

So the police are meant to stop all other work that they're doing, drive out in the snow to those strandard and then what? Take them all one by one home?

Caboodle · 07/12/2010 12:25

So, you go to work, get stuck, presumably haven't got blankets / food etc in car just in case, and expect very very busy farmers whose work load grows dramatically in these conditions to come and rescue you? I may be being harsh but it seems a little unfair. DH left North West to travel South today, weather shouldn't be too bad and roads are clear but I still packed him off with food / blankets / wellies / spade etc. Yes to some extent the weather was unexpected but it has been snowing for over a week now.

LemonDifficult · 07/12/2010 12:26

Apart from the issue of who is insured, who's paying for the fuel and so on (not something that can be organised very quickly), how do they get to the jammed road? And who's organising them once they get there? And where do these blankets magic from? Do they have them in their cabs?

Then there is the more serious issue of farmers being occupied themselves. Keeping animals safe in those conditions is their priority - their livlihood - and incredibly time-consuming in bad weather.

Original poster
Unwind · 07/12/2010 12:28

What happened yesterday was not anticipated to be as severe as it was (IIRC the met office map was orange, not red, and it has been orange a lot lately). I don't think employers can afford to shut down everytime there is bad weather predicted.

I think the authorities do have responsibility to keep the major roads clear.

OP posts:
NormaSknockers · 07/12/2010 12:28

Ever since DD was born we have always kept blankets, bottle of water, crackers and so on in the boot of the car. They're always there, surely it's just common sense to pack things in your car if you're having to venture out in the snow?