to think that tractors etc should be used to clear the snow

[Unwind]

With thousands stranded on Scotland's motorways last night, supposedly due to a lack of snow ploughs, I can't help wondering why they have not asked for help from farmers, bulldozer operators etc.

If clearing the roads was really impossible, surely they could have got people to safety? Or at least given them information, blankets, food etc? Friends who were trapped in a line of cars overnight never saw any police.

The farmers around here do whizz round with their tractors when it is bad, but they cannot, seriously, be expected to break the law and abandon their businesses to clear roads miles from their farms.

If an arable farmer has a contract with the council to help, fine, but otherwise it is an unrealistic expectation and yabu.

To repeat myself again - I don't blame tractor owners - but the insurance, and payments, should be sorted out.

As this is expected to go on for a long time that people cannot realistically take a day off work everytime snow looks likely. The authorities are responsible for ensuring that the major roads are kept moving. A situation like last night is a potential tragedy.

insurance and payments should be sorted out? by whom???

there are cutbacks everywhere....so where will the funds come from? are the councils not overstretched already?

where?? who will pay??

as for the work excuse.....well plenty suffer all year round with tube strikes,trains all public transport being crap actually.....we all rely on that and get through it.

If Scotland's economy is not to go down the tubes, major roads and rail networks need to be kept functional, even in winter. It would be a false economy to just shut everything down because you don't want to pay for snow to be moved on principle.

The most obvious responsibility is with the Scottish transport minister, who reckons that they did a "first class job" last night, though people were stuck in buses and cars, some just five miles outside Glasgow.

To echo what a couple of people have said, I can't understand why anybody was in that traffic without extra clothes, sensible shoes for walking, blankets, drinks and food in their cars.

I don't live in Scotland, I'm in an area far less likely to get snow, but ever since the temperatures dropped, I have had my snowbag in my car, with all of the above, plus the usual safety things like a torch, warning sign etc. as borderslass outlines above. I also have winter tyres on my car and snowchains in the boot for really extreme conditions (used them once last winter). I do this every winter. Now I'm pregnant I also have two walking sticks in my car to help me walk safely if need be.

D

Our economy reaps the benefits of not having extreme weather most of the time. We don't have to make vast economic investment in snow equipment, flood defence, drought reserves etc. This is a good thing

What we need is a more realistic approach to bad weather i.e. Weather Warnings Do Apply To You, Yes, Even You. There was plenty of warning about that snow, plenty! Too many people set off who shouldn't have.

Businesses and schools will gradually adjust without drama, because they'll have too. Hopefully more businesses will get together and share resources and make plans - car shares, work from home schemes, pavement gritting and so on - that may be small but will keep life as normal as possible until the weather improves.

I think part of the problem is what constitutes "essential travel". Aparently the Dept for Education considers travel to school to be essential, whereas the NUT disagrees.

LemonDifficult - I don't think organising contracts with farmers and anyone else who has access to suitable machinery would necessarily be a vast economic investment - the equipment and operators are already there, it is just admin, that would need to be done in advance, as preparation for extreme weather. It has to make at least as much sense as waiting for snow ploughs to make their way down from the highlands. Either way, someone is being paid.

Bramshott, Agree re. "essential travel". When the schools are open, as they were yesterday morning, I don't think it is unreasonable for people to be out. In this cold snap, there is always a chance of being caught out. Everyone should obviously be prepared, with snacks etc. Though there is a limit to how much you can bring if you are using public transport.

But it all boils down to if the farmers want to be involved, they can't be forced, and if they have the time.

I think the folks of S Yorkshire and Gloucestershire, Cumbria and Cornwall (amongst others)would all question the opinion that we don't need to invest in flood defences.

I am convinced they could be incentivised

the snow isnt the biggest problem anyway,its the ice underneath,which no tractor can remove

I think that's an argument for winter tyres and snow chains or snow socks. Which I'd agree are entirely the drivers' responsibility.

yesterday morning the police were gritting the road I live on ,I thought well done till I saw the local rag take pictures and leave,then so did the police.Also while I can have a rant how come the grit bins dotted around the town for the public to use are now padlocked and who gave the kids the idea that you could break the lid off the wheely bins for sledges,I just know the council will make me pay for the replacement,thanks for the rant.

Some areas of the country have organised farmers in advance - eg Kent

Farmers in the Ribble Valley have been doing it for decades - pity we haven't got any snow!

But, I think their focus is on rural roads. Motorways need proper gritters/snowploughs which are big and fast enough. Farmer Giles with his tractor ain't going to cut much ice.

Well I hope there are no farmers on this thread. Wasting their bloody time on the internet when they should be out in their tractors saving the day.
I bet there are as well. You know who you are!

i'm surprised nobody has suggested the 'feckless unemployed' should be sent out to do it!!!

digging the workers out of the snow!!

My friend is living with me, for the glasgow folk I am west end. She las a heart condition and last night became unwell. She was told by cardiologist on phone to dial 999. It took an hour for ambulance to get from my house to the Western Thats how bad the roads were at 11pm lastnight. I cant believe such main roads are so badly treated.

Most farmers, unless they have/have had a contract with the council, do not have the equipment to clear snow.
Those that do have a contract have generally paid for the equipment themselves, and it's not cheap to buy a snow plough.
I can't see many farmers falling over themselves to pay out vast sums to clear roads for the pittance the council paid them.