AIBU to print this out for the 4 males in my house?

[dontdisstheteens]

Things need to change

When I ask someone to clear away the rubbish that they have left they should clear it up, not conveniently ?forget?.

When someone leaves their shit in the loo they should clear it up. I also do not expect to have to clear up adult and teenage piss. Is it really so hard to use tissues and or bleach/ to do the job? Is it as impossible as replacing loo rolls when empty?

People should change their beds every week without me asking, you are not young children. , perhaps as you know I like a clean bed you could initiate changing it?

This house is not huge if everyone actually took on the responsibility for it being a clean and comfortable home it would not take long at all. It is interesting that if we employed a cleaner (s)he would be able to clean the whole house within a couple of hours - if (s)he did not have to tidy and do other ?everyday? stuff as well.

Neither do I expect to be wholly responsible for food planning and preparation, why should I be?

It is not my job to ?see? when the dishwasher needs emptying and to have to ask again and again. There are others in this house to ?see? mess, and dirty towels, but for too long they have ignored it on the grounds that someone else (yes me) will deal with it. I have explained many times that hanging the bath mat up after use means it gets dry and therefore does not smell, so why not just do it? You all know that dirty glasses/mugs/plates need to go in the dishwasher ? why do I have to ask???? There is no good reason why males cannot spot things that need doing, it shows a total lack of respect that you don?t bother instead preferring to leave it to me.

As for washing, the stuff gets rank. Why should I have to delve into a basket and get it out, why should I have to un-ball foul football socks and separate sweaty (sometimes skid marked) underpants from other clothes etc so they get clean? There is nobody in this house who is incapable of operating the washing machine and folding clean clothes to put away.

I fully accept that I am at home more and that it is easier for me to get some things done but this is done for us as a family not because I am a skivvy. Wouldn?t it be nice if the kitchen was tidy for me to work in starting as soon as people have gone to school/work?

I am fed up of saying things, being acknowledged and then ignored. You all know the types of things which make me feel miserable/cross/stressed ? do none of you care enough about me as a person to avoid them?

There is real contempt in this house and it is shocking that no one seems to care enough to address it. I share the blame for this because I have allowed it to continue but given everyone?s ages and the fact that in order to earn money I need to complete my current work it is time to change things. I have asked a million times for change/help/respect and I am really pissed off that any change is so fleeting. What kind of loving family is this?

Who is going to step up to the mark and make sure change occurs?

victorianice is spot on.....pleeeeeeese think of your daughters in law! My DP is the oldest of three boys, their mum did absolutely everything for them to the point of her getting up from her seat to go in the kitchen and get them a drink/sort their clothes out for a night out etc when they are sitting next to her!! It's nothing short of taking the piss and it has done them absolutely no favours, all three now have partners who are undoing (or trying to) this belief in them that this is the norm..i make my DP go back and hang up wet towels, put away clothes etc when i have just walked past them and it would be "easier" to do it myself than have the argument with him because i refuse to let him believe i will pick up after him because his mum did and he is slowly getting it.. OP wash your own clothes, that way it gets done "properly" and leave theirs, they will soon learn when they have no clean ones, if they will not help with meals, dishwasher etc, cook for you and only you until they do. Most importantly, if you give them this letter, have clear rules or a rota if necessary with consequences as to what happens when they dont stick to it. I dont know hold old they are but even teenagers need rewards - lifts to mates/money for clothes etc and STICK TO IT. as much as it kills you, dont give in, they will soon need you and there is where you get the upper hand :)

Do they get allowances? If so, start charging them the going rate for a cleaner.

Oh fuckit. I hate this but will not let them continue taking the bloody piss all the time. It is not fair on any for them as well as me. Think DH is the big problem. Oh fuckity fuck. Sorry just needed a good ol' swaer!

Why don't you leave a big ol' dirty menstrual pad out on the bathroom counter for them to see and when they bitch about it, say something like, 'oh I thought not having to clean up after ourselves around here was the norm.' Get them all their own laundry baskets and just don't do their laundry. No matter how viral it gets. They will eventually do it when they see after weeks of trying to hold out, thinking you will eventually cave, they will start doing it.

Tell your DH that you are on strike, effective immediately. And until he can get his head around the fact that shitstains aren't to be left in toilets, dishwashers need to be unloaded and laundry needs to be done, you aren't doing any of that. Do NOT ask your teenagers' opinions on all this, just announce what's going to happen, no negotiation.

Then DO IT. This is the key to it working. DO NOT CAVE. Buy and cook food only for yourself, do only your own laundry, use only your own toilet (and lock it when you aren't using it) and generally act like you live in a house by yourself. DO NOT CAVE.

Yep it's tough love but it will work. Give them about a week then suggest to DH that you do up a rota. Not ready for a rota yet? Strike continues. Rota fails? Strike is back on.

Seriously, you have a lot of work to undo if you've been their domestic hired help for this long, but it's possible to achieve what you want. Again, the key is DO NOT CAVE.

If you're not prepared to do this, then don't bother with your letter and in fact don't bother posting here. Here's an old chestnut for you: the person who cares the least about the situation controls it. This means if you want control over your household cleanliness, you need to start NOT CARING about it - or at least caring less than they do. This is what the strike is for.

Let us know how you get on. You can do it!

How about this letter:

Running our house

Work will be divided among all of us.

Child A: clean bathroom daily. However each person is responsible for cleaning their piss, poo streaks, hanging up mat, etc.

Child B: clean floors, dust, vacuum, mow.

Child C: Walk dog twice daily. Take rubbish out. Windows.

Husband: Food shopping.

Wife: Kitchen

Each person will cook supper one time each week.

No one can use electrical equipment, have friends over, or go out until work is done.

Each person change their bed weekly.

Each person do own laundry.

Each person clean their own room.

Wife will give lessons on bath cleaning and laundry.

Each person will clean up after themselves.

Notmyproblem. Keep telling me that. I truly need to sort this and stop being a wimp. Backbone. Ta.

YOu made a rod for your own back by doing everything all the time, so now it is expected.

Personally I'd rather clear up shit than live in it but that's me! And there is only me and 1 real tidy son here.

Def need to keep it curt and factual and keep the emotion out of it.

Have you watched the worlds strictest parents?

My problem is not following through, because actually it's really hard work and I am disorganized and hate dealing with the complaining. Who has older kids who do pitch in? How do you deal with the complaining? Don'tdiss, well done for sticking to it re his allowance.

I'm wondering if the consequences have to be more immediate, then you haven't got weeks of battling, them not doing it and not believing you before they realize you mean it?

I'm going to try writing a daily list for each of them, and consequence, do dinner till list is done. I asked them to help me clean out the car. Cue much crying, moaning, stalling etc. They tithed about doing a half arced job, arguing, fighting, complaining the whole time. I lost it, sent them to their rooms and said i'd do it then, but they would have to pay me, and I did stick to it - they didn't get any pocket money. But you know, I still felt I'd f*d up, cos i still had to endure the complaining and arguing, they still ended up not doing the work, and I ended up doing it. The loss of money avfew days later was a bit of a disappointment, but nothing more.

At what age can they do things like
hovering
Changing bad
Ironing
Clothes washing
Making dinner

mine at 4 and 6 can sort and put on a load of washing. strip their beds, hoover and dust.

they also put their folded clothes away. Are quite good at clearing out the car too.

Have you heard of a book called How to Talk so your kids will listen and how to listen so they will talk?
It has some good ideas in it which you can put in your "tool box".
You sound like you are at the end of your tether and have tried different things. I do believe it is not just a boy thing. I remember being at home and my Mum constantly going on about being the only one to do anything. It wasn't until I went to University and lived in shared houses that I understood what she was going on aboout. I hadn't "seen" things until they weren't done for me or where I had done things that were taken for granted or not recognised by others. This noticing can be learned.

There is a section in a book that I read called Raising a daughter. They talk about how men (and also children in my mind) can often focus on things first rather than people. Also, that by leaving the undesirable jobs and expecting you to clear up after them, they are effectively saying that they believe you are worth LESS than they are, that they are better than you and should not have to do the "shit work".

I often get cross with my dh because I don't want him to do "my job" but I also don't want him to make my job even harder. So, I do the washing but I don't think I should have to check pockets or roll down sleeves. I'll clean the bathroom but I expect shit marks in the toilet to be cleaned after the session and the sink to be rinsed after he uses it. I'll clean the living room but I expect him to put his things away so that I can do this.

Nothing will change unless you get your dh on side. He needs to understand where you are coming from. Once he gets it, then you are a team. Why on earth would your boys see a need to change if their Dad doesn't?
I could send you a copy of a couple of pages from Raising a daughter. They helped me explain to my dh what we had argued about for 8 years. I would be happy to send them to you. When I get friends to read it, there is often an AAAHH moment.

I would like to think that things would change for you but I think they'll see it as you over reacting/ hormonal/ being Mum etc. I would like to know of anyone who has done this and it had a lasting effect. They need to "get it" for themselves rather han do it to keep you quiet and off their backs.

Personally think you should substitue Hansiemums letter for your own. All the handwringing and you being upset obviously hasnt worked. You need to clearly divvy up the jobs so all is transparent and you take your feelings out of it. Appealing to their consciences hasnt worked so you need to lay it on the line.

All good thoughts here. Sirius I would really like to see that section, it is the contempt involved that I feel most strongly and this strikes me as an issue both personally in the home and on a societal scale. The thing is they are all very capable and seem to be better able to cook etc than many of their friends (who love to help when they come round). I have spent months on and off fairly disabled (including a long time before I got an electric wheelchair where I was almost totally bed/sofa bound. They were brilliant then, I just want a little of that now!

I could do a rota, I just feel that it will be far more effective if I can get them to do it. Perhaps a shortened version of my letter and a list of jobs?

I am stressed and hormonal; perhaps I should start another AIBU...AIBU to expect less PMT symptoms when experiencing menopausal symptoms?

It was another reason for waiting until Thursday - I know I was totally murderous a bit cranky, yesterday!

Well done for wanting to approach it calmly and not as part of a hormonal rant. Keep hold of the feeling of injustice though.
I think a letter is always a good thing if you think you wouldn't be able to communicate what you need to in the way that you want.
I suppose I think you need to look at it as a chain working back from what you want to be happening on a regular basis without your intervention so that your family works as just that, a family, a unit, a team.
I really feel for you.
I don't know how to do personal messages or if I even have anything set up to do it. I can scan and send you the sections. I emailed the author to ask for permission to do so for people who may not have daughters. She said yes.

I think giving them a list of jobs that need to be done is a good idea.

Handing them a fully worked out rota - meh, even if they do the jobs on it, you doing the rota means you still 'own' the work, they're not taking the responsibility for making the house work.

A list of jobs - then they've got to discuss between themselves who does what, and actually THINK about it a bit.

Just make sure you give them a full list, include everything.

Thanks whereyouleftit that is what I think.

Sirius, can we do it on the new PM facility, think you just go into it by my name but not sure about attachments.

Hopefully sent you a message to see if it works.

when the kids were younger teens i washed their uniform - but they ironed it.

we all had chores, we would have a family meeting and i would ask them what they were prepared to do.

i did a rota and cellotaped it to the kitchen door.

periodically when they slacked on their duties or if one moaned that they were doing more than the other, we would have another meeting and revise the chores.

as the teens have got older (now 17) their shithole bedrooms are their domain. i asked ds to tidy his room and told him that i wouldn't take him to college int he car until it was done. he did it.

i ask each of them if they will do things on an ad hoc basis now, and they do when i ask.

but their washing is theirs. if they want clean stuff they know where the machine is.

i really think sitting down with them and your dh and yourself and all 'volunteering' for chores is the best way, that way it has come from them and isn't something being dictated by you.

I'd let the house get filthy, the washing mount up and the food run out. Then I'd check into a hotel using DH's card and refuse to come back until they stop being such lazy fuckers! I think DH needs to lead by example and stop treating you like a skivvy. Just my opinion.

Perhaps I should add that I'm 37 wks pregnant and may be slightly hormonal.

I lived with male teenage students so I feel your pain. I was the only person who ever lifted a finger. Thing is they really would just live in a shitpit and wouldn't care - so no, they probably really would never notice/do anything unless you spell it out to them. It's the rubbish thing that got to me. Leaving cans, wrappers, even chicken carcasses over evry surface and they would have stayed there forever unless I put them in the bin. Or leaving cupboard doors open after they take something out so it looks liek a hurricane has gone through the house. No advice as I never managed to change a thing - but I feel you pain.

Although, my current dp is really good at domestic stuff, and that was because his mum made him and his bros share chores from a really early age - so it is noraml for him and he just gets on with it. I don't know if it is too late for your dcs now, but maybe start REALLY training them now, for the sake of any other poor female they may live with in the future...My mum did everything for me, my bro and my dad. My dad and bro are now hopeless and always will be, but somehow I learnt pretty quickly to clear up after myself when I left home...

Oops - I have just assumed your dc/s are male? Am I right?

Sorry just noticed title again - so yes they are male!

Oh, and I know what you're saying about feeling that it is a sign of contempt. I used to take it really personally that they would watch me clear up their mess and just think that was ok. I saw it as huge lack of respect. But I don't actually think men think like that. They are just lazy. And I used to feel like a nag if I said anything. You need to really SPELL IT OUT and set specific tasks. And micromanage. That is the ONLY thing that will work - maybe eventually they'll start acting on their own initiative. In your situation it is YOUR HOUSE not theirs so you have every right to ORDER them to do something. In my situation in a shared house I couldn't actually do this as it was just as much their house as mine so they could chose to live in a dive if they wanted to .

We lived with a slob at university - there were 3 girls and 2 guys one lad was fine the other a jerk who would put his dirty plates in the sink. WTF who did he think would wash them up? Unfortunately for him one of the girls was a feisty red hed who whenever he did this would carefully pick up the plates and pan and deposit them on his bed . He got the message after that.

I am going to stamp my feet and scream - I do not want to micromanage!!!! I am sick of telling people what to do. That is almost worse than the shitty loos.