in thinking that DD will get nowhere with these GCSE options...

[PosyPanther]

DD is 13, so, in my opinion still a child, she changes her mind about pretty much everything daily, school shoes, whose her best friend, her favourite colour, you get the picture...

She has just had the first leaflet from school about GCSE option next year and want to pick health and social care (double award)human health and physiology instead of additional science, child development, psychology and sociology. She says she wants to do social work or primary teaching (or win the X factor )

I think she's mad. She's in the top set at school, level 5 across the board at primary school and is working at solid level 7s now. I would much prefer her to take at least two science GCSEs, history and geography instead of psych and sociology and a language with one choice left for whatever she fancies (but I'd prefer a second language or triple science.)

I can't see that having History, geography, french, german, separate science would disadvantage her in applying for ANY degree/career pathway? How do I convince her that some subjects actually are better than others? Her teachers are insisting all GCSEs are equal but I can't see that sociology is as hard as German or Physics? I'm worried she's going to close doors at 13...

"I don't care if ds likes me or not; I'm not here to be his best mate, I'm here to be his Mum and parent him, which involves his academic decisions as well"

The problem with this is that it hasn't really worked either in my family or in dh's.

Dh's dad was devastated when dh announced he wanted to be an archaeologist: he tried to talk him into joining the army so he would at least have a Proper Job. I reckon dh might have lasted all of 3 minutes in the army. Otoh he has been very happy working as an archaeologist for the last 30 years. He knew more about what he could do than his dad did.

My FIL felt very good about his eldest who did get what he considered a "real job"- poor BIL has lost more jobs than I can keep track of and is stressed out in the current one.

Parents don't always know best.

My parents tried to guide my db's academic choices, anything from making him do French instead of German (he never learnt any French), to trying to get him to enter higher education. He veered from one course to another for years, until he suddenly took his life in his own hands and got a job as a trawlerman. It was absolutely the right thing for him and he has done well in his seafaring career.

My younger brothers and I have done much better in terms of finding something satisfactory to do quickly- no doubt because our parents had learnt by then to back off.

Parents don't always know best.

I will limit my own guidance to "if you want to do this career, this is a good way to achieve it"- rather than trying to tell dcs what they ought to want. Tbh I think FIL's example has put us off that one.

Yes, but somepeople know clearly what they want to do with their life at 13, most do not. Therefore you have to plan with that in mind. A good clutch of academic GCSE's are not going to close any doors, but not having them may. Decisions about specialising for a career come later, A levels really.

A good clutch of academic GCSEs are only going to help you if you get a reasonable mark. My brother did badly in French where he might have done well in German (it being easier for someone with our first language). Now an A in French might well have looked better than an A in German (given the culture) but a C in French didn't look anywhere as good as an A in German would have done.

Does an E in triple science look better than A*s in business studies?

If I make ds take triple sciences, he may well fail and he will certainly be unhappy.

True, but the OP has said dd is bright.

Surely there is a balance to be struck - no point in forcing your children to take subjects they will absolutely hate and rebel against.

However, I do see the point in sitting with them and explaining that most people change their mind about their careers options and so x, y or z subjects might be rather limiting? There are a fairly broad selection of subjects, and I'd also be checking that they aren't being guided by what their friends are taking/who teaches the subject this year/it's supposed to be harder, etc etc etc.

I don't agree that you should tell them their current career choice is worthless, merely that they might change their mind and should build this in to their plans. And that would apply whichever career they are considering.

Often they choose subjects that are "new" to them, thinking they sound fun, only to discover that there is little difference in terms of level of enjoyment.

scotsgirl23
Surely there is a balance to be struck - no point in forcing your children to take subjects they will absolutely hate and rebel against.

I think that is why it is so disappointing that some teachers and schools are not more open and honest with DC. A professional assessment of a dc true potential in a subject and another adult taking to them about implications and their potential- would surely be a help in decision making.

When I did G.C.S.E I had to do a language. I would have dropped languages like a shot if I could have. Hard work got me a decent grade, though lower than all the other subjects I took. If it was now I would have dropped the language and then later found that a lot of universities would have not looked at me because of it. It the way people as so disingenuous about the perceptions and requirements in HR and admissions that is so troubling leading so many students to be mislead.

Admittedly at my school the selection was a little limited too - we do 8 standard grades up here, and you had to do english, maths, whichever language you had done in 2nd year (we were split between french and german) and at least one science. The subjects were arranged in specific columns which meant you couldn't take more than a couple of non academic subjects, and I think that's how it should be.

Claiming that all subjects are equal doesn't help children I don't think.

Masochism, I am not aware that not having a MFL at GCSE will mean that a lot of universities won't look at you. I hope not anyway.

Last night at my DD's parents evening DDs teacher advised her casually to do Art and Drama as 'she enjoyed them' and getting top grades counts most, subject not really making a difference..She actually prefers other subjects far more!!

DS has taken german because he has been told he needs a language for uni, he hated languages but now actually enjoys his german class.

abouteve
Masochism, I am not aware that not having a MFL at GCSE will mean that a lot of universities won't look at you. I hope not anyway.

Think as a stated requirement Cambridge has dropped it and UCL are introducing it in 2012.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-534428/Foreign-languages-longer-requirement-Cambridge-University-applicants.html
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6173219.stm

Been told by people I know working in Uni admissions it is looked for now and favored so guess you can get by without it but it is a help.

Thanks for the links. Mine didn't do MFL, I tried to steer her but she refused! Looked at quite a few unis and haven't seen it as a requirement so far.

I didn't know that re MFL.

DD didn't take a language - she is dyslexic and was utterly useless at french, can speak it to an adequate level but reading and writing it were a complete dead loss.

I don't know if this is a general dyslexic thing or whether she is just rubbish at languages.

I agree with you. You need to find a way to convince her to take better GCSE's. Perhaps if she realises she may not get into university she might re-think, and if its her decision she will still be motivated.

GetOrfMoiLand
I don't know if this is a general dyslexic thing or whether she is just rubbish at languages.

Do not know - but I am dyslexic and very poor at languages and it is hard to see how it can be an asset there. I was lucky I had choice of German which was easier for me than French. Not sure just hard work would have got me a decent grade in French.

That is when a professional judgment of a teacher would be helpful - if the subject really is hopeless for DC and a poor grade inevitable then it is important to take that is taken into account.

LeQueen
But, for a teacher to encourage bright kids to take these pointless qualifications is a crime.

Yes.

Yes, it is a crime for bright kids to be encoyrage to take daft subjects.

Equally is a crime to persuade non-academic kids to continue studying travel and tourism, all the way up to Btec levl 8 or whatever and a degree in the subject at the university of pontypridd, whislt making the poor fuckers and their families PAY for it.

What is going to happen to all these useless unis and courses now that so many kids will choose NOT to go to university because of the cost.

I imagine a lot of the universoties will fold. Local gossip is that the (useless) uni of Gloucesteshire is financially teetering on teh brink.

But then the fallout with jobs etc will have to be dealt with. Plus a whole generation of kids who have been raised to believe that the ONLY viable option post 18 is to go to uni, and everything else is a failure.

Poor kids of today. I am so glad I am not of my daughter's generation. The whole qualification and degree system has been so discredited that my dd, despite being a bright girl, has said SOD IT and is not going to uni, but is joining the RAF at 18.

I don't reckon it will affect lower unis and courses. They way the increase in tuition fees is being sold to us, students will be told to do these courses as there are no upfront fees and you won't pay a penny back until you earn over 21K and with these degrees you won't earn anymore that that so it will be free.

Nick Clegg has been patronising the demonstrating students today. Apparently they don't understand the proposals and might put off poorer students.

I heard the uni of Glos is selling its art campus (which used to be the pretty respectable Cheltenham College of Art), to pay off debts.

yes whatswrong - Cheltenham used to have a very highly regarded FE college.

Now it is a uni where the degrees sold by it are not worth the paper they are written on.

abouteve is right. There are NO jobs, NO apprenticeships. These poor bloody kids won'ty have any choice than to spend 3 years wasting their time studying crap on a deferred loan, which they may never earn enough to pay back, which means that the taxpayer is paying for the continued existence of these nonsensical institutions and perpetuating the myth that a degree is worth it, no matter the subject.

It is a con.