AIBU in being shocked that pupils aren't marked down in exams

[Hammy02]

for having poor spelling and grammar? Apparently the coalition are reintroducing marking down exam papers by 10% if spelling & grammar is not up to scratch. How on earth did the previous government get away with this? No wonder employers are having trouble when people can't write a decent application for a job?

Lilly my DH is the same, although he didn't go to university.
In my house the cry of "how do you spell this" is imprinted on my brain. I feel like a walking dictionary some days and I really wasn't very good at spelling at school either.

A dictionary? Gawd, haven't used one of them for years.

I think you are talking a lot of sense WoD

Mine is shocking and i have a 2.1 in English much to DH's amusement.

LousRowdyDuck The Literacy rate is measured on basic reading and writing skills, it depend how you define literacy. Certainly we have a number of literacy issues within our education system. But for activate to suggest that we have generation of illiterate people is simply misleading and is not helpful when resolving the problems that we do have in this area.

well the 35% GSCE pass rate thing is rather misleading.

If you look at many vocational job adverts these days you'll see a lot are asking for NVQ2's in this that or the other. Many schools offer these (some with great success) for less "academic" students.

And quite frankly I couldn't give a damn if my plumber/electrician/hairdresser/builder/chef if I eat out doesn't have good English spelling and grammar. Obviously would be nice for them - but its not going to affect how well they cut my hair or cook my meal, or build my extension.

absolutely writer - I was a bookworm and 'should of' is immediately and obviously wrong to me, but I can see how a child who doesn't read much and so has learnt from listening to people speak could think that was correct.

So much of the learning of the grammar of your mother tongue is instinctual rather than about learning specific rules, and the names of different types of word etc.

"which is dad,"

AIBU to find any typo's made on this thread rather amusing given it's subject matter

I haven't read the whole thread but must take issue with the poster who asserted children are not actively taught spelling and grammar any more (writerofdreams). That's nonsense I'm afraid. The decline of spelling and grammar has coincided with the decline of reading at home in my opinion. Fewer children read for pleasure because of "busy" parents and too many other distractions. And when I was at school in the 80s I don't remember being taught any grammar.

Hammy - not even the one on your word processing programme?

Cadders - thanks for explaining. Mind you, I think it's more useful to think about how many people are literate enough to function in the working world, and many are not, even if they would technically qualify as 'literate'.

maybe they are being taught grammar but it is not being repeated enough for them to really get it.

I mean by this: being told what a common noun is and what a proper noun is and doing some examples, covering it again the next day and then moving on to say the use of commas in a list might not ensure better grasp of grammar in the end because I could imagine it has to be reinforced again and again and again.

I know ,am MN-ING on new phone,slamming touch screen predictive thing! V slow going here.

Ha ha,and again! 'Blumming'!

- I'll let you off - those damned electronic gadgets hey seriously comprising the English language skills of our youth

I agree LoudRowdyDuck.

This has been going on for a lot longer than since Labour came to power. I often have to recruit staff, and the number of people in their 20s to 30s with degrees who make spelling and grammatical errors on their applications is astonishing. I can't employ them because a good standard of written and verbal communications is essential to the jobs I recruit for.

baroque i see your typo comment and raise you your incorrect use of the apostrophe....

I know! This thing even has a book reader built in! If only I had the time, baby DD keeps me a little too busy.

Aries - I think I agree with you.

Some spellings and grammar are taught by most schools ( in a way that was never touched on in my education). Even the poor primary where I volunteer tries to cover it.

But it's mostly pointless because the children don't read.

Their parents don't read to them. They don't hear them read.
The older children almost never read at home ( and before anyone says they might not have books, we have a very well stocked library and I am always trying to lend out my massive collecion).

They watch telly. They play on their computors/ps3/xbox/ds.

The school are on a hiding to nothing.

- popyscal - I have said all along that my spelling and grammar were pretty dire so yes I'm prone to making many typos.......

:)

"Their parents don't read to them". That is so sad. It is one of the most loving things a parent and child can do together. Clearly there are some truly awful parents out there.

I don't know dc who don't read. Is this really so wide-spread? Maybe they don't all read copious amounts outside of school but I think they do read and I do think most parents try to help primary school dc with learning to read. I don't know about secondary school aged dc and their reading. I doubt many parents are actively involved in that.

Who was it that wrote further down they felt they could think logically but not write logically? Have been reading something about this recently (online somewhere). The author was basically saying that writing is a skill most people need to be taught and tuaght in steps. It was probably like spelling, grammar, one of those building blocks to literacy that was not considered so important in the 70s, 80s.

Litchick that's it I'm afraid. Teachers tear their hair out - the NLS gave them a statutory obligation to teach grammar and spelling in a daily structured way. But in the years this NLS was in operation, things didn't improve. Frankly I don't see how it could have failed to improve if things were being done at home to back the teaching up. When I was teaching, spelling lists were issued weekly, tests administered on a Friday but it was the same children week after week who hadn't learned them. And these were not necessarily the children with learning issues. We had library time, reading time, book fairs, authors and poets in to inspire and enthuse the children. I don't remember anything of that sort when I was a kid in Thatcher's Britain. That makes me conclude that it is not the education system which is at fault here.

ZZZZ - it was me saying that about the logic.

I have no problem sitting down thinking logically, or acting logically. But when it comes to writing it's a massive (usually fruitless) battle.