to wonder what's so heroic about being in the British army?

[poppylongstocking]

Both my brother in laws are in the army and spend 6 months at a time away from their wife & kids in a country we are under no direct threat from fighting a war which was started on dubious grounds. They are risking their lives, yes, but I don't see it as heroic, I see it as a bit stupid to be honest. I could understand the label 'hero' if we were under direct threat and having our homes bombed as in WW2, but it's very different nowadays, aibu?

OP doesn't think her BILs are heroes, yet is not even brave enough to re-visit her own thread on Mumsnet!

Lexi - I just saw a part of it on the news :(

YANBU-I was too scared to say it but it is really sweet and fitting to die for one's country?

I think we do need to have an army and I do respect our soldiers but I don't like the war in afghanistan or war in general for that matter. I think if you do join the army; go into it knowing you might get shot.

I just feel sorry for the poor lads who get killed; both ours and the ''enemies''.

I have not read the whole thread so sorry if I repeat anything, I am just replying from what your OP said.

It is one thing to question whether the war is the right thing. Probably not.

But these soldiers sign up to serve our country without knowing what the future holds. Another war could start where our country is under direct threat. Also what would happen to GB if we didn't have the armed forces protecting us?

These men would risk their lives for you and your family and you seem to think its 'a bit stupid'. And yes, I appreciate you see first hand how hard it must be for your sisters, but surely knowing the sacrifices they make to protect complete strangers makes them even bigger heroes?

(Custardo - you do actually realise that your Son can put anyone he wants to as his Next of Kin don't you? It would be kind of him to put you so that you would hear any 'news' first - but it is his choice. I'm sorry he's signing up and I hope they never need to access his NofK x)

SalFresco and Custardo -- you both assert that you can make a distinction between the bravery of soldiers and the reason for their fighting. I don't think that distinction holds: an act cannot be judged accurately in the absence of the context in which it occurs.

A poster earlier asked whether Taleban fighters who saved their comrades was brave and people responded "no" with considerable vehemence because the context matters. The context matters for our soldiers. It has mattered through all wars there are endless novels about the extent to which immoral orders should be followed, for example, and it was of course a centrepiece of the Nuremberg trials.

Members of the armed forces in Afghanistan and Iraq are not serving the interests of the British people by being there: they are damaging our interests. I want them to be brave enough to refuse to go and to demand that the armed forces be used only to protect the country against existential threat.

no i didn't know that - i really thought i was his next of kin.

how does a soldier go about doing that shilly?

How is Afghanistan a direct threat to the Uk out of interest? Or Iraq? was it the 9/11 atrocity?
Am I right in thinking that part of our reason for being in Afghanistan is to target the heroin trade?
I'm divided about if I think we should get mixed up in the private affairs of other foriegn countries. I think it'd a shame we don't go in to Zimbabwe to overthrow the vicious dicatator Mugabe but i guess that the US has no vested interests in Zimbabwe as there is no oil. Iraq on the other hand.

I think I do admire the soldiers who go abroad to help the people who live in messed up countries so I'm beginning to think yabu. It's so difficult.I don't think soldiers are stupid but subscription during the 2nd world warfor eg was based on the premise that it was great to die for your country.

I am not particularly nationalistic so I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Custardo - you are his NOK legally. However I understand he can put a note on his file for his GF to be notified as well. There is a proper term for this - but cannot recall it.

Unless things have changed in the last 10 years we were in a similar situation. Me and now DH lived together off base (as an unmarried but co-habiting engaged couple) with our 2 DC. When he went away and had to update his forms he tried to put me as his NOK but was told that despite living together at that time for 5 years and having 2 kids I could not be his NOK, it would have to be his father or mother. He was advised to request a note on the file that I be notified too should anything happen.

I was only allowed to become his NOK when we married.

As far as I am aware NOK is a legal status whether you are in the Forces or not.

1. Would-be soldiers do it by choosing not to sign up.

1. Soldiers do it by refusing to fight and taking a stand. It has happened in Vietnam, in Israel, in Iraq, and in Afghanistan.

US examples: www.tomjoad.org/WarHeroes.htm www.couragetoresist.org/x/ Israeli example: www.commondreams.org/views02/0417-07.htm

1. Generals, admirals and the like do it by arguing forcefully for withdrawal with their political masters -- behind closed doors and tendering resignations if need be.

Cutardo (& Mum72) NofK has no legal definition in the UK.

Must just be a rule in the Armed forces. just checked with a mate on FB chat who cohabits with her Marine BF - she is not NOK as not allowed to be but has the note on his file for her to be informed along with his parents.

Custardo. You would be NOK, but his GF can be Additional NOK. She can also be his Emergency Contact (EC) which means she could be chosen to get the first call if injured, but not if he was killed.

You would also get a Compassionate Card, which means that if something happened at home (death, illness in the family) he would be told, and bought back if needed. The card gives you the contact details you need.

Shilly, you are talking crap and have obv no idea what you are on about. Laughable, seriously.

ok, I have taken part in this thread all night, and feel very strongly about the points raised but it is late and I need to go to bed but thankyou all for a thought provoking and evocative thread.

YANBU.

I think the term "heroes" is bandied about by charities who are doing otherwise damned good work that, frankly, the government should be doing.

Many of my family were in the forces.
I don't think they were heroes.
Brave, certainly. Foolhardy, possibly. Not heroic.

LtEveDalla - thanks for proper term - the not so technical "Emergency Contact". DOH from me! LOL It was bugging me!

cheers - will tell him & her thanks.

OMG!! YABVU! I honestly cannot understand why you would start this thread!

LtEveDalla, do you care to back up your assertions that I "have obv no idea what [I] am on about" with any actual arguments, or are you just going to go with ad hominem attacks that I am "talking crap"?

YABVU I can't believe someone has started this thread, the men and women who serve in the armed forces are willing to put their lives on the line for the country.

penguin, sorry I went away, but I was one of the people saying that you shouldn't blame young needy people for choosing the army as a career.

I didn't mean that as an insult. I am aware that lots of people find the army very competitive. However, I think the way the army recruits is a bit suspect. A friend of mine is an army recruiter and her job includes going into schools and telling teenage boys how good it is to train in the army. She has no knowledge of serving in a combat zone at all: the only army job she has done is recruiting. She is not allowed to tell them this unless they specifically ask. I feel that is dishonest, and I am absolutely sure that some teenagers are sucked into thinking the army is the only option they have for a decent career. I agree with you that it is not, and that capable people would be welcome in many other professions, but the problem is, do these teenagers get a chance to find that out?

You have to do something heroic to be a hero. You don't get to be one for signing up. That why the forces give out medals etc. For heroism. Heroism is the exception. Most soldiers, even in warzones are just doing their jobs, albeit a dangerous one.

I bet the OP would run a mile from most of the situations that our servicemen and servicewomen face.