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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to wonder what's so heroic about being in the British army?

519 replies

poppylongstocking · 22/11/2010 19:25

Both my brother in laws are in the army and spend 6 months at a time away from their wife & kids in a country we are under no direct threat from fighting a war which was started on dubious grounds. They are risking their lives, yes, but I don't see it as heroic, I see it as a bit stupid to be honest. I could understand the label 'hero' if we were under direct threat and having our homes bombed as in WW2, but it's very different nowadays, aibu?

OP posts:
herbietea · 22/11/2010 21:45

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Tortington · 22/11/2010 21:46

i don't think anyone would argue that they would prefer to lvie in a world where such things as the armed forces wern't needed

but we don't

i'm not sure about all this terrorist stuff tbh, i think its a convenient maks for political gain and making rich people richer - oil pipelines etc. wouldn't go down too well with the general public - who need to be scared for their families and homes to fully be on board.

but many people on this thread have already seperated the govt intentions with the actions of the armed forces.

my nan always said that politians lay down your life for their country!

my son is filling in an application to join the army and i had to make sure he understood that i was his legal next of kin, despite him living with his girlfriend - imagine having that conversation with your son Sad

Sidge · 22/11/2010 21:48

There are plenty of trades in the Forces that require academic qualifications, a level of skill and knowledge and offer a long and rewarding career path.

Not all roles involve risking life and limb.

Tortington · 22/11/2010 21:49

i told ds to be a cook Grin

he wants to be a lorry driver Sad

Niceguy2 · 22/11/2010 21:52

my nan always said that politians lay down your life for their country!

mamatomany · 22/11/2010 21:57

I wanted to be an army chef when I was 16, typical story, homeless kid with no clue what to do with my life finds her way to the army recruitment office.
The Sergeant I met there was a really nice man, but made it very clear if you were cooking baked beans and suddenly ambushed or under threat you were expected to put down the frying pan and pick up a gun. Every single person is a soldier/sailor/airman first and foremost and a truck driver, administrator etc etc second.
Luckily I got a job at Frankie and Benny's and never looked back Grin

SalFresco · 22/11/2010 21:59

People who dismiss those in the armed forces as not being "heroes" never seem to want to do it themselves do they? I think anyone in the army, serving on the front line is brave as fuck, they get paid a very low salary, and they do stuff that would make most of us quite literally shit ourselves.

I haven't read the whole thread. Does the OP have some issue with her sisters?

Mum72 · 22/11/2010 22:02

I am sorry but EVERY SINGLE DAY I go onto the base where I live i see TENS of young men with artificial limbs (mostly in the rehab section).

They have seen things you and I cannot even imagine. They have "done their bit" for the security of our country albeit in a far off land. They have not paid the ultimate price but bloody hell they have paid a price with the loss of limbs.

I feel inspired as I see them try and rebuild their fitness in our Gym and pool and just get on with it.

They are heroes. They do not deserve to be called stupid.

FFS - nice and cosy in your front room is it?

cheekyseamonkey · 22/11/2010 22:05

Yanbu most of them aren't bright enough to get another job that pays as well. Nor do they, or a number of the people on here, often actually grasp what this conflict is about. Some heroic acts do take place but I do t think they're automatically heroes.

gemmummy · 22/11/2010 22:08

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hairytriangle · 22/11/2010 22:10

Yanbu.

herbietea · 22/11/2010 22:11

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Lexilicious · 22/11/2010 22:11

I went to a funeral today of an IED disposal team member. It was immensely moving.

His father, who is a retired vicar, did the sermon. He made a very powerful point connected to "god so loved the world that he sent his only son to die upon the cross". I can't do his point justice but in short, it is an heroic and compassionate act to serve your country which (as an apolitical member of the forces) you must trust is reasonably in the cause of peace. Particularly when it's NOT a war of national survival.

haven't read the whole thread - will go back now...

midori1999 · 22/11/2010 22:12

YABVVU.

My DH is a serving soldier, he was injured in Iraq and had to be flown home for treatment and still went back out there to finish his tour as soon as he could. He saw 11 of his 120 killed in Afghanistan and dozens more injured. I see him as a hero and in fact, so do our government as he was awarded the Military Cross for actions in Afghan. Does he see himself as a hero? Not at all, he is embarassed about his bravery medal, he says he was just doing his job.

The men and women in our forces are prepared to risk their own lives and be away from their families so that you can sleep safely in your bed. We are at threat of terrorism (from closer to hoem than Afghan too, but you probably aren't aware of that) and a very high proprtion of the wrolds heroin comes from Afghanistan. In fact, the soldiers out there know poppy harvesting time will be quiet for them, as the Taliban are busy! They are also protecting innocent Afghani men, women and children, the majority of whom are greatful to have them there. Or should we only protect those closer to home?

hystericalmum · 22/11/2010 22:12

My cousin lost his leg.
YABVVVU.

SalFresco · 22/11/2010 22:13

Seamonkey, that is just the sort of faux-intellectual I'm so clever I can understand that the war is just all a load of shite, actually, attitude that disgutst me.

MeowyChristmasEveryone · 22/11/2010 22:15

Have you not heard the news today - there are schools IN THIS COUNTRY that are teaching Arabic kids using Saudi textbooks the finer points of their religious fundamentalism.

This of course raises a number of questions, not least of all why the hell this has been permitted in the first place?!?!

BUT as, I think Little Miss Hissy Fit said (sorry if I've remembered incorrectly), we NEED to be in the faces of these Muslim religious fundamentalists in order to let them know that a) we will not be forced into converting to their religion, and b) we will not lie down and die as a consequence of refusing to convert.

It is a very similar scenario to that in the Middle Ages, and some people decided that being Roman Catholic was actually a bit poo, and they'd rather break away and start their own church. Caused a bit of, um, upset didn't it?!?!

Louii · 22/11/2010 22:16

YANBU

slhilly · 22/11/2010 22:16

Simon Jenkins wrote about this a few weeks ago. One thing that he said that really struck a chord with me, is that armed forces are a spectacularly expensive and ineffective method for fighting terrorism.

Armed forces have historically been the method that countries use to protect themselves against existential threats expulsions or killings of entire populations, the replacement of the government with an imposed rule by another, etc. Neither the Taleban nor Al Qaeda pose any meaningful existential threat to the UK there is no substantive risk that the British parliament is about to be replaced with an Islamist ruler, for example.

Even if they killed thousands or tens of thousands of us by launching some kind of horrific attack on the UK, they would not pose an existential threat to us. More than 99.9% of us would still be living. The economy could continue (once we'd got over our shock and assuming we didn't shut it down through over-reaction a la backscatter machines and groping of three year olds in airports, which in the US is on track to kill more people than the terrorists by shifting people from planes to cars, which are much more dangerous).

What's more, to the extent that we face serious and disruptive threat from Islamist terror, eg dirty bomb in London, gunmen in the House of Commons, cyberwar on the LSE, that kind of thing -- the armed forces can't help us. The things that help us are for example, effective intelligence services, effective cooperation with other states, and trying to harm the interests of others as little as possible.

I understand why people with loved ones in the armed forces get angry with posts on this topic, but that will not make me shy away from stating my view: what the armed forces are doing in Afghanistan is worse than ineffective in protecting the interests of the UK -- it's actually counterproductive, creating a greater likelihood of damage to the UK than if we'd done nothing.

amijee · 22/11/2010 22:17

YABU and also trying to be controversial I think.

It is very insensitive to people who have lost loved ones.

I was friends with a senior officer that lost his life a few yrs ago - he had a brilliant life ahead of him and was bright enough to do anything in life but he chose to be in the army and risk his life - in my book - that's heroic.

piscesmoon · 22/11/2010 22:19

Surely they don't join up to be heroic? I'm sure they wouldn't get taken on if they did. They often end up being heroic with the situation they find themselves in. I sometimes wish that posters who were so anti could find themselves in a position so dire that they were very thankful for the help of the army! It is easy to sit in safety and sneer at others.

Guacamohohohole · 22/11/2010 22:20

I am absolutely fed up of people (seamonkey)who believe that people join the Armed Forces because they can't do anything else!
People join the Armed Forces to serve and protect their country and it's inhabitants.

Tortington · 22/11/2010 22:21

slhilly

i have - and many other posters have made the distinction between the political requirements for the army being where it is - or fighting for whatever it does,

and the soldiers who do the fighting.

there are many people who disagree with this war and its purposes and what it can achieve

but can seperate that from the job that the armed forces are sent to do.

Guacamohohohole · 22/11/2010 22:23

Poppy you are without any doubt being VVVVVU. For heavens sake do not express this sentiment to your brothers in law. And God forbid anything ever happen to them in theatre, never express this opinion to your sisters.

SalFresco · 22/11/2010 22:23

slhilly - the OP wasn't debating the effectiveness of the war. She was saying that soldiers weren't heroes. You can debate the validity of conflict without undermining the overwhelming bravery of those engaged in it.