to wonder what's so heroic about being in the British army?

[poppylongstocking]

Both my brother in laws are in the army and spend 6 months at a time away from their wife & kids in a country we are under no direct threat from fighting a war which was started on dubious grounds. They are risking their lives, yes, but I don't see it as heroic, I see it as a bit stupid to be honest. I could understand the label 'hero' if we were under direct threat and having our homes bombed as in WW2, but it's very different nowadays, aibu?

crumbs captain! The 'military' and their families are soo aggressive and insulting, not only of our citizenship ( who unfortunately pay for your activities ) but also of the peoples they are 'helping'. Who do you hate most? Must be a tough choice for you.

SWT - you are aware that Wilfred Owen wrote it as an utter piss take?? A very sad lament on the conditions of war and the futility thereof.

The way to effect change on a world stage is via trade, interdependence and political and cultural understanding. These things reduce the scope for violence on all sides. Exercising a sense of national power and individual machismo is pathetic.

Military types need putting back in their cages until they understand civility.

"Do the ORT do "Biff, Chip & Kipper Go To Afghanistan"? I think it could really help out a few people on here"

thanks LeQueen, I've just spat tea all over my laptop...

Unfortunately though I think you are right that there are a number of posters on this thread who could do with such a book...

no aggression H. Voicing an opionion regarding conduct. Not me who is using the F-word is it now??

Chippinin, I joined in 1998 when I was 17. Yes, I did think I was old enough, I couldn't wait to join. And yes, if I would have known then what I know now I would still join because I know of the many amazing things I have been involved in, not just conflict but peacekeeping, rebuilding efforts and disaster relief both at home and abroad. Can I just say, I am quite angry at what some of the later posts on here have suggested, the implication that our troops kill discriminately in Afghanistan is so far wide of the mark it is unbelievable. Yes, there are civilian casualties, as in any war, but mainly due to the indiscriminate nature of the taliban ied campaign. Our troops are not gung ho warriors out for revenge. If anyone wants examples of exactly how strict the forces are on this I am happy to give examples that are not of a sensitive nature and are already in the public domain. We rebuild, secure, train and numerous other things. We are not raping pillaging mauraders, however, as I've said so many times, we go where we are ordered to. Civvies would not understand this, that's why they are not in the mob. We can't pick and choose, that is quite frankly a stupid assumption. I am happy to answer any more questions. I'm nearly 30 and I'm still extremely proud to be in the Armed Forces, as in my husband.

As a wife of an airman about to deploy for 4 months to afghanistan i find this thread really sad. Yes my husband signed up a single man knowing that one day there may be a war but at the time the worst thing happening was the troubles in Northern Ireland. 11 yrs on and he is married and we have 2 small children and to be honest i am wondering how i am going to cope without having him here not just for the routine things but explaining to my 2 children where daddy is when they ask. Luckily we live at a main base so my eldest who is 2 thinks daddy is going away on a plane for a while but she doesn't get the danger etc. when i had tears streaming down my face in asda on rememberance day she wanted to know why i was sad. Do i respond with 'because your daddy is a bit stupid because he helps protect our country and quality of life and safety so millions of others can live their lives never having to really know what its like to have to say good bye to your family not knowing if you will see them again.' I wouldn't say he is a hero but he is brave and i respect his courage to do what he does. He will miss our son walking for the first time, he will miss xmas, our anniversary, my birthday, and so many other moments you can't get back and he will only hear about and see photos of, so you can sit at home not having to worry about a terrorist attacks because there are people like my husband and the other serving people on here who will always be stood on the line to protect us and ensure that we are kept safe. So please don't call them stupid or thick.

The civilians directly killed as 'collateral damage' are just the thin end of the wedge huge numbers (tens of thousands) of Afghan civilians have died indirectly as a consequence of displacement, starvation, disease, exposure, lack of medical treatment, crime and lawlessness resulting from the war

Sorry I thought the first insult came from the OP about people serving for their country or perhaps I got the post wrong. I thought the words stupid and army came in the same sentence??

Sorry have I offended someone It was to prove the point that lots of people have views that others don't like but not everyone chooses to call a group in society when they are desperate or dying.

If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen, or better still don't go in the kitchen in the first place!

To parrot an earlier post, how many died under the taleban? How many little girls weren't allowed to go to school? How many women were stoned to death for being in the company of a man who was not a relative. This, to my mind, is part of what we are there for. Who helped secure the area so a massive dam could be built (sorry, name escapes me) to provide power for a large part of the country. We did, us brutal british forces.

Yes unfortunately civilians become casualties in any war, the same happened in WW2 but actually if we had stopped bombing then we would have been part of Germany by now, along with most of Europe.

Craig - i think the people who need to be put back in their cages are the politicians. they are the ones who decide where the armed forces go as has been said before. And incase you weren't aware armed forces personnel also pay taxes to help 'pay for the activities' And those that have commented in a way that has made you feel insulted are the people who are living this reality so maybe the truth is a little too hard for you to swallow??

hello again herbie!

Hey Herbie - i was directed to this thread from another forum. couldn't bite my tongue anymore

It's not THAT much like WW2. UK fatalities '39-45 385,00. UK fatalities 2001-2010 527.

lol monster my first post on the first page got deleted, it was a bit, ahem, strongly worded!

Gemmummy - thank you for your reply. I hope the second part of your last post wasn't aimed at me though - as I never said or implied any of those things....

Gem - how do you feel about both of you being in the forces when you have children?

MonsterChops - I am so torn. Part of me is almost in tears at what you write, but the other part of me is thinking 'HE is choosing this... he could leave, get a regular job' - he is there of his own free will - does that not make you angry with him?

And everyone of those 527 was a hero. No question.

btw - I at least haven't called army types stupid or thick - just that this particular war is monumentally stupid. But if you sign up you cop for it, as part of the deal.

Cages - figure of speech. Lots of others equally relevant. I do get concerend when military chiefs feel it their role to criticise civil authority regarding spending on the defence budget. And when we are implored to view the military as 'heroes'. Don't buy it, never will.

I know a few 'heroes' - none of them military.

Chippin, it's very very hard. but it was acocious decison that we both chose to make. Some of the people on here that know me from the forces topic know how hard it has been for me to leave my DS. But it has been my choice.

And no, it wasn't aimed at you, just a general observation.

Craig, all the forces types on here are singing from the same hymn sheet. Being in the forces does not automatically make you an instant hero, there are lots of jobs where there are lots of heros. But it does make you brave and worthy of support, again just like lots of jobs. We do not claim to have sole rights on heroism, but you need to understand, we go where we are ordered. No question. As do the police. And social workers. And firemen. And nurses, and binmen, and cleaners and so on and so on.

In summary, we are not stupid, or thick, or thuggish (just a few of the comments aimed our way on this thread)

ChippingIn - It doesn't make me angry coz i knew the score when we met just makes me sad that he will miss all of those things because the Taliban are what they are. I get angry that people think that those who do this job are stupid and selfish because if people didn't volunteer then we would be back to national service and then so many more families live would be ripped apart. Plus if he leave where does he go for a job? with all the defence cuts he is lucky to have a job still and we are hoping he will remain in the RAF for a few years yet as there is nothing as a secure job anymore.