to wonder what's so heroic about being in the British army?

[poppylongstocking]

Both my brother in laws are in the army and spend 6 months at a time away from their wife & kids in a country we are under no direct threat from fighting a war which was started on dubious grounds. They are risking their lives, yes, but I don't see it as heroic, I see it as a bit stupid to be honest. I could understand the label 'hero' if we were under direct threat and having our homes bombed as in WW2, but it's very different nowadays, aibu?

chipingin I joined for a career that would see me with a full pension at age 40. I joined to see the world and because I like to travel and be outdoors, I knew I would never do a typical 9-5. And I joined because I like the military way of life, the disciplin e and the rank structure. Also, I joined to defend my country if and when the time came.

afaik poppy day began after the first world war, not the second but am happy to be corrected. Isn't it the link to the poppy fields where the trenches were, Flanders?

Sorry to labour the point, but I don't see how those fighting in Iraq/Afghanistan are defending our freedom, although I can accept that that may have been the case in WWII.

I can't respect people who go to Iraq or Afghanistan because I feel they are out there putting my life here in danger. I also feel that choosing to go to a war zone where you know civillians will be killed and where any sane person can see we shouldn't be isn't an honourable mission.

You can't compare to that to just random jobs you wouldn't want to do.

Yes, first world war.

I think, looking at WW2, it was clear what we were fighting for and that clarity is missing when we're talking about Iraq and Afghanistan.

The idea of fighting for our freedom, it certainly sounds like a worthy cause, but what does that actually mean? Particularly when you consider that the Government who took us into these wars also eroded our civil liberties at the same time!

Thank you Wubbly, for putting my question much more clearly!

When people say they are 'fighting for our freedom', what do they MEAN? And have they even thought about it? Or is it just something that just gets trundled out whenever anybody talks about war?

Gpat, please don't bring Remembrance Day into this. If you look at the British Legion website it will tell you that they are moving forward from the Remembrance service for serving and ex serving personnel and bringing in a newer more modern service to include Heroes of our time.

It also honours the memory of those serving soldiers who have lost their lives.

Fuck me, now I'm insane as well...

Some of those same soldiers were the ones patrolling NI during the troubles, being spat at, having bricks thrown at them and being shot at/bombed and killed in order to protect you. Some are still protecting you from the same threat now, albeit in a different way.

People forget that though.

The fact is, these people joined up, even if it was their choice and they are prepared to risk or lose their lives to defend you if they need to. Whether you think they are defending or protecting you by being in Afghanistan doesn't change that.

The fact is, these people joined up, even if it was their choice and they are prepared to risk or lose their lives to defend you if they need to. Whether you think they are defending or protecting you by being in Afghanistan doesn't change that

I can see why you feel that way midori but can you see that many of us feel that our lives are more at risk because they have chosen to go to war?

They didn't choose to go to war though, did they the government the people of our country voted in did.

Our lives are not more at risk because our Armed Forces have been sent to Afghanistan or Iraq; we are a target anyway because we are a democratic country with freedom of speech that fundamentalists wish to have living under their beliefs, under their regime. And the Armed Forces did not choose to go to war, they were sent by the government. One which failed to equip and support them properly once they were out there, but that's a whole different thread!

Yes, but everyone has the right to say "no, I won't go"

Yes, there will be consequences, but if all of them did it.. there would be no bloody war. Personally I would go to jail before I would go to this war if the draft were somehow reinstated.

Ididthisforus, I completely disagree that we are not more at risk because our armed forces are in Iraq/Afghanistan. I suspect terrorist sympathisers have increased exponentially since Iraq.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/7900135/Iraq-war-increased-terrorist-threat-to-the-UK-former-MI5-chief-tells-Chilcot-Inquiry.html

'we are a target anyway because we are a democratic country with freedom of speech that fundamentalists wish to have living under their beliefs,'

..not because we support America's meddling
in the middle East to secure cheap oil then?

Yup, there's that whole freedom thing again.

"They hate us because of our freedom".

"We have to bomb them to protect our freedom".

I don't think any of us are in a position to say with absolute certainty why we as a country decided to enter into a coallition with the USA to remove a dictator. We can all make educated guesses but I think that we would've been a target anyway, regardless of whether we'd sided with the Americans.

But again, this is about the government and the decisions they made, not the Armed Forces, who were merely used to carry out the government's dirty work.

And what's the alternative? That we allow the terrorist camps to continue in Afghanistan? That we allow the Taliban to maintain, indeed increase, their foothold in Afghanistan? Surely by giving the Afghans an alternative to joining the Taliban then the source for recruiting terrorists will dry up? By regenerating the towns and villages, which is what the military is also doing out there, it is giving the law abiding citizens an alternative to becoming terrorists in order to make a living enough to survive. And if it's not the British military then who?

They'd be no point in the armed forces if they could all just agree not to do something when they felt like it.

It seems to me that people would be quite happy for the men and women in our forces to protect them when they agreed with it and no doubt would be pretty pissed off if no-one volunteered to join up then and their sons or daughters were drafted in against their will to defend our country.

What if the soldiers didn't agree with it when you did?

Also, what exactly do people think our soldiers are doing out there?

Midori - we'd all still be dithering around doing fuck all is what would happen. You are never going to get 100% of the people to agree 100% of the time.

If the Soviet army, at the invitation of the Afghanis, couldn't bolster a stable government in Afghanistan in 10 years, then really, what chance do we have?