to wonder what's so heroic about being in the British army?

[poppylongstocking]

Both my brother in laws are in the army and spend 6 months at a time away from their wife & kids in a country we are under no direct threat from fighting a war which was started on dubious grounds. They are risking their lives, yes, but I don't see it as heroic, I see it as a bit stupid to be honest. I could understand the label 'hero' if we were under direct threat and having our homes bombed as in WW2, but it's very different nowadays, aibu?

goat, i don't mind answering your question, and will be as honest as I can. I didn't agree with the invasion of Iraq, and think it was dodgy and oil based and the country of Iraq is probably in a worse way. And yes, it probably has made us more of a target. however the point I am trying to make about the armed forces is that the basis of our contract is, we will go wherever you send us, whenever you want us, and do whatever our government tell us to do. We are not stupid, thick or thuggish but this is what we sign up for. We will also do foot and mouth, firestrikes, flood relief in this country and others, and provide help for natural disatsters around the world. We do this willingly and without complaint because this is what we sign up for. Not all members are heros, but all of us, bar none are loyal and brave as we are all willing to put our life on the line for our government and country. All we ask is for your support. You might not agree with what we do, hell, we might not agree but these are the rules we abide by. Please do not insult us, or the memory of our dead and wounded.

i don't know if that made much sense, I suppose what I'm saying is the armed forces deserve your respect at all times because you might not agree with this war but it's not just this war we will be involved in.

Gemummy, thank you for your answer. It is not at all my intention to insult you or anybody. There is a great deal about the rhetoric surrounding the armed forces that I find bewildering and it is hard to ask these questions in real life because I realise people do find it offensive when you question the role of the armed forces.

I think that the thing I have found insulting on here, and this isn't aimed at any poster in particular, is the complete lack of understanding about us. We are all someones, son, daughter, mother, father in the forces. We do what the government of the day ask us to do, so in a way we are a politicians tool and in private some of us have full and frank discussions about the wisdom of what we do. The people that say they wouldn't let their offspring join, I see that totally, it is a lifestyle choice and not for everyone but we are not stupid. We are not thuggish. Some of us even have some qualifacashuns certifycates gold stars!

Very good point, BeerTricks.

As do I beer, but I do wholeheartedly believe that the decision to send troops into conflict is never taken lightly.

BTP - "Army training removes the will to question orders. So people in the Forces don't debate 'good' and 'bad' conflicts, they just go out there and do what's asked of them."

What do you base this assertion on?

I served for 10 years in the Army and can assure you that the Law of Armed Conflict is taught and revised annually to all personnel.

Granted, people occasionally disobey such rules and are punished when it is proven that they have done so but it is incorrect to assert that all military personnel blindly obey orders without question.

GR, surely it is a given that as a general rule army personnel do what is asked of them regardless of whether they think the conflict is 'good' or 'bad'?

gemummy (and any other serving members) - would you mind telling me why you signed up and (without wanting to cause a riot) why you feel I should respect you for doing the job you are paid to do (any more so than I should respect a teacher/dentist/shopworker/nanny)?

I don't think you are silly/thug/idiots etc - but I am struggling with the concept that I should 'respect' you more than any other person because of the job you have chosen to do.

(Genuinely interested & not looking for a ruck)

I deplore the fact that questioning the role of the armed forces is considered unacceptable, and anyone who does is fair game for personal abuse. Is this the famous freedom out troops are supposedly fighting for?

IWouldNot yes it is given that military personnel do what is asked of them but it is out of respect for those asking/telling them what to do, not because they've had their 'will to question' trained out of them. The military works only because there is a rank structure and a system whereby those that disobey orders are punished, because when in siutations like those who are in Afghanistan, you cannot operate under a democracy, because decisions need to be made almost instantaneously reacting to what is happening in the ground. Military personnel are very vocal in their opinions over decisions but the bottom line is they still obey orders because that is what is expected of them. Some give the orders, some obey the orders, some do both. But all will have an opinion, of that I can assure you.

BTP - no, they're not permitted to 'sit out' but I was referring to the way they conduct themselves once action has begun.

Your statement regarding the obeying of orders was incorrect and rather rude, in my view.

I agree, Seeker.

WHY can we not question the role of the armed forces?

There are so many things that are taken as gospel that you are not allowed to question.

For example, when people say that the armed forces are in Iraq/Afghanistan to protect my freedom I always want to ask "My freedom to do what? What am I free to do that I would not be free to do had you not bombed an Afghanistani village this morning?" I find this genuinely bewildering.

ChippingIn I don't think gemmummy has asked for more respect, unless I've missed something. More that the Armed Forces are not disrespected for doing a job that, yes they chose to do, but ultimately potentially carries a higher price than that of, to use your examples, a teacher/dentist/shopworker/nanny.

It seems that the Armed Forces become an easy target for peoples anger when discussing what they consider to be unjust conflicts, when it is the government that made the decision to enter into the conflicts in the first place. And what gives anyone the right to ridicule anyone else's choice of career?

ChippingIn doesn't come across to me as arguing for the right to ridicule someone else's career. I think her question is a fair one.

Do army personnel deserve more respect than anyone else? Why don't we have a poppy day equivalent for, say, firefighters? They risk their lives too.

I have never said more respcet is due to the armed forces. Just respect us the same as any job. I, for example, could never be a nursery worker and I have the utmost respect for those people because there is a job that would blow my mind.

But no-one has said that military personnel deserve more respect, certainly not those serving. Just that they don't want to constantly be the scapegoat when the subject of Afghanistan or Iraq is discussed. It was the government who made the choice to send our troops out there, not the Head of the Armed Forces. There is not one member of the Armed Forces who is out there now who wouldn't rather be at home where it is safe, with their loved ones.

Poppy day started as a way to remember and honour the conscripted men and women who died fighting for freedom against a Nazi invasion. Had the Nazis succeeded we would all have been living a very different life now. They didn't have a choice of whether to fight or not and so I think it's not essentially the same as those in the Armed Forces today still fighting for our freedom but not against such an obvious and immediate threat as those during WW1/WW2.