to think that if you contribute nothing to school events, you don't have the right to bitch about them if they're not up to your exacting standards?

[zisforzebra]

Okay, I'll probably get flamed for this having seen mn reactions to PTA threads in the past but here goes...

I help on the school PTA. Every meeting this year it's just been me and two other mums maximum representing 400+ parents. It doesn't matter how many letters are sent out or what the event is to be, we don't get any other parents coming to meetings or showing an interest (we're nice and approachable and not remotely cliquey (which I can't spell!) which I know can put some people off)

We've had the school fair today and I've already seen comments on facebook by mums who do nothing but moan about how much stuff/money the school ask for bitching about how they thought the fair was rubbish.

It makes me so cross and I think that if you contribute bugger all (be that time or donated items) to a school event, you don't have the right to bitch about it when it's not as great as you think it ought to be.

Rant over.

YANBU.

Maybe comment saying that if they spent as much time making things to help out as they have bitching about it, then they would have enjoyed it more.

No, having watched people picking over the (very nice) produce on stalls at school fetes with distaste ('Can you tell me what's in this cake?' 'No, it's a homemade cake wrapped in clingfilm. If you don't like the look of it, buy the one you made yourself like I always do - oh, you didn't bother').

One thing that works for our PTA, though I don't know how it started, is an unwritten rule that volunteers do two years and two years only on the committee. There are periods when it's very dynamic and times when it's less so, but fresh ideas and faces do keep rolling in, and nobody feels that if they volunteer, they'll be stuck with it for years.

Fancy moaning about a fete on Facebook! I thought I needed to get a life.

I'm with you on that, YANBU. When I joined DCs' school, I did some work with the PTA. After a year I could see I didn't agree with their ideas and occasionally we got on each others nerves, so I stopped going, no point in arguing about things. But whilst I was a member I admired the hard work everyone put in, tried to do at least as much myself and I still donate whenever I can, read notices and do whatever is required e.g., bring donations in etc. OK so some events work better than others, but fgs its only the school PTA.

YA absolutelyNBA. I was dragged reluctantly into our PTA, and have to physically restrain myself from telling moaners to fuck off and do it themselves if they don't like the way it's done. Ours is a tiny bit cliquey, I'd have to admit,with members of one local family (not mine!) being particularly heavily involved. This sets off a lot of moaning with people who have grown up with the family and 'won't have that lot telling me what to do'. Thing is, the chairman has been trying to resign for years as she no longer has DC at the school, but nobody else wants to take it on.

I think YAtotallyNBU - I can't be bothered with moaning people any more, if they want to make it better they have to get involved, put up or shut up!

to hear stories like this, but also very grateful for our schools PTA. I'm not on it, I do other charity work to do my bit for society, but this site has really made me realise how lucky we are. Nearly all the parents contribute in some way, we donate good stuff and man stalls when needed, as well as spending a small fortune at each Christmas and Summer fete. It works when parents can be bothered, and our children benefit hugely.

Thankyou to all you PTA organisers

YANBU.

May I please add the following: play groups, NCT branches, workplace staff magazine etc etc.

All run by volunteers. All moaned about by the people who do bugger all.

I agree with you 100%.

I am SO with you on this. I am on a volunteer group that is trying to save a local forest from being sold to a property developer. We devote one whole weekend a month to clearing tracks, repainting signs, repairing hides and all that. It is a quite significant time committment. But holy crap the bitching we get from others in the community who step foot in it to walk their dogs, but not to help about something.

YANBU - although some PTA's seem to manage it better than others. The infant school never seems to have any issues (I can't be on it as they have too much stuff in the evenings which I just can't do having no regular childcare for evenings). But the Junior school seems to have lost its way for a long time. I have friends who wereo n the PTA at the infants and stayed their all the time, went up to the Juniors and joined the PTA.......and then left again.....

agree it happens in all walks of life though where people give up their time.

I've now managed to shut up most of the complainers at church who complain about

a) the choice of music (You come and choose it then and put up with the complaint) (I only get "pocket money" to play the organ and take choir practice - planning the hymns is actually something I do voluntarily with the trainee Reader....

b) the lack of regular choir (well come and sing then - duh!)

c) the omission of x/y/z from the newsletter (I'm human - fancy taking over for me and putting to togther - no didn't think so)

d) The spelling/typo/missed out verse/blooper on anything I do on the computer for when we use the screen (they can sod right off on that one - this week alone I've spent over 16hrs working on stuff for church - which isn't ANYTHING to do with the music.

Other volunteers at church get complaints too

"the creche was left in a mess" (oh dear that's because quite a few of us with young children spent 3/4 of our week in church organising/cleaning/planning/setting up and obviously on the day in question we had to rush back to our family life and forget to tidy it up

"the service sheets weren't put away properly/tidily" (well come and help out)

"the grass wasn't cut/a bit of the floor was missed/the sugar ran out"

GRRRRRRRR - if you don't like it help out.

Obviously there are some people that "help" by dictating and it puts others off though

There is only one way to deal with this... Approach the bitchers one by one on consecutive days in the playground, bright smile in place...

"Hi! I was noticing on Facebook you had some really interesting ideas for how we can make the school fete better this year. It's lovely to have you on board, I'm sure you'll be able to make a real difference... Here is the time of our next meeting (offer piece of paper) - see you there. Bye!"

It's imperative you say all this quickly and then motor off before they get a chance to make excuses react.

I think though some of us would rather just give a tenner than spend their Friday night at school being dragged round stalls by overtired kids
I'd rather our Xmas fair was in the day but it's always in the evening, after work when everyone just wants the weekend to begin

Longtall's suggestion is a work of art. :)

although having said all that some PTA's seem very averse (Junior school in my case) to "outsiders" that genuinely can't make the meetings making any suggestions. Very much a "well if you don't come to the meetings and join us we're not interested in your view"

YANBU

YANBU I don't know why you were expecting a flaming!

Happens in many situations, not just school stuff - people not bothering to contribute and then moaning.

I mean, I don't contribute to e everything but I don't have the cheek to whinge about it!

Fair point, Baroque, but you'd be surprised how many people make their one suggestion, without enquiring if it's been tried before, then sit back expecting all the arrangements to be put in place for 'their' project without any further input from them. And our HT blocks a lot of our committee's suggestions; it's not always that the PTA aren't interested!

YANBU. In the slightest.

I would definitely mention it to people. Prompt them to moan about the fete, then, when they've finished, say, "why don't you help at the next event" Don't run off. Wait and watch the look of panic while they try and wriggle out of it. And maybe that feeling of fear (as well as being a little treat for you!) will highlight to them they are just bitching, without actually doing anything about it. Plus, some might rise to the challenge

ahhh but some of these ideas have been suggested before by people that are actually keen to be involved (and put in place by the infant school link to the juniors with great success) and the head teacher is new and very open to new suggestions

YANBU.

It makes me really cross that people have behaved so badly! You must be so demoralised after putting all the hard graft in.

You said you've asked for help/sent letters out etc. Wondered if you'd thought of the following:

a) Send letters out asking parents to tick box of when they would be able to help over 2 hour fair; but split it into 30 minute slots. Bit less daunting for those with little ones etc. Also provide box saying "I am unable to help on this occassion" so that they hopefully feel obliged to return form regardless.

b) We had a coffee morning in the school hall at 9am and grabbed parent at drop off time. We had a display by the children using resources bought through fundraising and photo's of children who's fave thing was the bee bot thing (bought with our money), stuck on bee bot.

Once I had captive audience I told them what we did, how and where the money went. I explained how rewarding it was to fundraise. . . sometimes! and what a difference it makes to children. Explained that all welcome to join but if they could just offer a little help from time to time - flyer round village, cake making etc all would be very greatfully received.

c) Could the PTA subsidise a school trip. When sending parents letter asking for money for trip tell them how much it would have been otherwise and that fair money helped to reduce cost.

Bigchris If fairs were during the day, other parents would complain that they couldn't come due to work or needed to loose wages as a result. We can't win!!

Sticking a tenner in an envelope doesn't do much for school community spirit, but as there are those parents who would prefer this, I think the odd sponsored event can be helpful.

Life is like this.
5% of the people do 95% of the work, the rest bitch about it.

It IS bloody infuriating.

Almost exactly the same thing happened after our school fair in the Summer. A parent went on FB (on her page) to complain how disorganised the fair was! The Chair of the PTA is a 'friend' of this woman on FB and saw her comments. She didn't respond straight away and when she went back on FB in the morning the comments had been removed. We think a little wine was involved the night before.

I was seriously pissed off because:-

1. This parent has one child, is a SAHM yet refuses to join PTA or even come along to most of the events we hold.

1. On the day of the Fair, about 6 people didn't show up. They had been allocated stalls to run so, yes, it probably was a litle disorganised due to us trying to get other people to stand in. BUT you can only run these events successfully by relying on other people showing up and doing what they said they would.

It is really unhelpful when parents criticise PTA for doing its best and funny how the negativity always comes from those who do bugger all!

Arrrggghhh.......and breath!!! Rant over!

YANBU. Think the suggestion to approach people one to one may be a sound one. No matter how approachable you think you are, some people (prob not the moaners tbh) need more of a "personal invitation" to come and help. I say this because I am such a person. I hate just turning up to stuff, but if some one said the meeting is at 7pm, in the hall, please come, then I would.

I mean during the day at the weekend
preschool Xmas fair is 2-4pm in a Saturday pm
guess which one is busiest...