to be very heartened by the student riots!

[Heathcliffscathy]

apathy be damned...I predict more riots...looks like the youth have found their teeth.

They are children. As with most children, they don't know how lucky they are. Tantrums.

Is that you trying to discuss the points Matsikula brought up moondog? Pointing out a spelling mistake??

Moondog University hasn't taught my DP how to spell either, but as he's on course for a first, presumably his spelling has far more to do with his dyslexia than his academic potential. Don't be a snob.

I don't consider that old chestnut ('It taught me to think and write!)worthy of further discussion.

University doesn't teach you how to spell anyway, it teaches you how to think.

Shame because school doesn't teach you how to spell either.

You don't seem to have any powers of discussion moondog if you recon picking someone up on their spelling is putting across your side of the argument.

Being taught how to think is a very poor justification.

Unquietdad and appletrees, maybe they were protesting on behalf of their future children? Again, how lucky you are that you can afford your children's educations.

This thread is quite clearly "spot-the-rich-Tory". Very telling. Shall I just get back to polishing yer boots now guv'nor?

moondog Wed 10-Nov-10 23:43:04

I don't consider that old chestnut ('It taught me to think and write!)worthy of further discussion.

Really? Well in that case I don't consider your coments worthy of further discussion.

I believe that the ability to analyse an opinion is a pretty important skill. But if its not going to be reciprocated, why bother?

YANBU to see students out protesting and making a stand. About bloody time the politicians had angry faces to worry about. It's part of the political process, much as the police often treat peaceful protesters like criminals (personal experience). YWBU to delight in seeing people get hurt, but I'm sure that's not what you meant.

Absolute bollocks btw whoever posted that protests always have an element of violence to them. I have been on quite a few protests and the only behaviour from protesters I have ever seen that the police classed as "violent" was the person who tried to grab the Olympic flame in London, which is IMO a stretch of the idea of violence (don't snatch darling). OTOH I have seen the police drag people, carry them, push, shove, pin down etc.

Sophable - there were loads of young people and students protesting about the war. I held a protest at school, with quite a lot of others, as did lots of people up and down the country. And then marched in London where I saw loads of people a similar age to me (teenage).

UQD - aren't you the cool one to have totally forgotten your passion for politics and strong belief in protesting things you think are wrong. Good for you. Don't tar all these strong minded young people with the same brush though there's a dear.

Actually the think and write is a cogent argument when talking about people going to university with poor qualifications. They haven't earned their tuition fees. They're in no position to start demanding more education when they haven't made the most of what's on offer to eighteen.

Particularly when they say they want to learn to think.

Unfortunately violence does seem to be necessary. The feminists were ignored in their demands for a vote and only when violence was introduced did they get noticed and the issue truly came to the awareness of the government.

How many people would be discussing this if not for the violence? The protest would probably have been a 30 second story promptly forgotten. Because of it we are now discussing this, admittedly alot of it is about the rights and wrongs of their actions but there is now more discussion and awareness of the tuition fees issues.

The protests against the Iraq war don't appear to have done anything at all. Maybe if there had been riots on the streetste government would have listened.

The unwillingness of this nation to do anything even slightly radical is disgusting. These people were standing up for both themselves and future generations in the only way that would be noticed.

Nurse - actually I can't be at all sure that I can afford it and I am very uneasy about how we are going to manage. Don't make glib assumptions. I know one thing. My children are going to know which party first introduced tuition fees.

And my opinion is only based on what's actually happened to people I know, so obviously it's rather more flawed than a bit of groundless conjecture.

I don't even want mine to go to university. He needs a learn on the job opportunity. This might create some.

I don't know where you are all getting the idea that they are being selfish - they are not the ones who will be paying higher rates. They are concerned about the slippery slope we are going down where only rich families will be able to afford HE. Once these fees go up they are never coming down, even if the recession magically ended tomorrow. They are worrying about their little brothers and sisters, the kids of 5 or 10 or 15 now who won't be able to have the same opportunities as they are having. Some of them already have kids and be worrying about how things will be for them. I was talking to DP the other day and reflecting that our future DC will 99% certainly not be able to go to university. It's real stuff.

And don't give that bollocks about it being a protest against the Tories. If anything, they are targetting the LibDems, trying to get them thrown out of their seats. You think students care about the colour of tie of the people doing this? It's not just the tuition fees, it's the massive cuts to university funding. Lectureres were there too, if you hadn't spotted it.

YANBU.

There is a great deal to be said for rioting (sadly) - peaceful protest does not make the news, and what doesn't make the news is ignored (50000 protesters or not). The media is as much to blame for this attitude as anyone. (But they don't seem to be able to see beyond the simplistic 'a group of anarchists hijacked the protests' rubbish. Perhaps students were genuinely angry?)

If it's about the principle, you have to wonder why students were not up in arms in great numbers like this when tuition fees first came in. Maybe there were demonstrations, but I don't remember anything on this scale being reported.

And why has it been NUS policy to support fees?

Good for the students and as for the violence at least unlike the Police no one was murdered

What opportunities? A degree requirement for most jobs is an inhibitor of opportunity and condemns half the population to jobs not careers.

Er well they dived off route to attack cons hq.

It certainly wasn't NUS policy to support fees when they were introduced, quite the opposite I can remember the leader speaking at rallies etc. "I don't remember anything on this scale being reported" - maybe because they didn't break into Conservative HQ that time? It is true that peaceful protests rarely make the news.

Also hate to break it to you, but the students now are different people to the students in 1998. In fact, most of the people out protesting today were probably still at infants school. Ridiculous to suggest that students didn't mind the introduction of tuition fees when Labour did it.

I was also there today, and along with my SU, we were all incredibly disappointed that any point we may have made has lost any credibility thanks to a small minority.

I also believe that very few of the violent protesters were actually students, but members of other political parties (there was a lot of people handing out literature for socialist / communist groups).

Very few of us who were there will actually be affected by these cuts, as many will have graduated by this point (sadly I may not have due to a four year course). We were not there just to look out for ourselves, but for the future of education as we know it.

No ifs! No buts! No education cuts!

Please let my child do well and be respected without a degree. And the other fifty per cent. I hate the current system .. it was only established to bring down dole numbers anyway. Get rid of it.