AIBU to be cautious of this man....

[Starbuck999]

Ok, I'd like some opinions on this one please...

I have a best friend, we share everything and she has had a hard time recently, she is very fragile emotionally and has in the past been depressed and taken medication for PND. She is a single parent with a 5 yr old dd and has no family and few real friends She has recently told me she has met a man - I'm very very happy for her as she has been very lonely recently.

They work together, she says he is very kind, polite and quite quiet. Apparently he seems like a bit of a "loner" and doesn't share much about his private life at work - fair enough I thought, lots of people are like that. She went on her first date with him which went very well, they had fun and she says he went on and on about how much he likes her, has fancied her for ages etc. Then he bombarded her with lovely texts and calls. The next date they went on he was so different. Not at all tactile, very quiet, not affectionate etc.

He has told her today that he has mental health issues. That he is bi-polar and suffers from severe mood swings. Now I appreciate a huge proportion of adults will suffer from mental health problems and this in itself isn't a reason not to have a relationship with someone - of course! However, he has also said he doesn't take medication as he doesn't think it helps him. That he sometimes just has to stay at home and doesn't want to do anything but sleep and be alone for days on end. He also admits to her that he has a terrible temper and when in a depressive state he has been known to be aggressive and throw things, smash things etc.

She has asked me what she should do and I have asked her to be very wary of this man. Not becasue he has mental health issues but because she is very vulnerable and emotionally unstable herself and I can see her getting very hurt. Also, that I see it as unwise to have someone who is basically a stranger who admits he has violent tendencies around a 5 yr old child.

AIBU? I am basically discriminating against someone because they have MH issues and I can't decide if I am justified in my advice that I have given her or not. I admit I have very little experience of bi-polar as a condition and would very much appreciate some opinions and perhaps someone with any advice I can pass on to her...

I agreee with Heracles, to an extent. I don't know any Bipolar men, but my mother suffers from the disorder and takes no medication for it. It hasn't turned her into someone to avoid, in fact she is often stopped by random people in the street for a chat
And she does so no matter how crap she's feeling.

Have none of you considered that if this man was on the down turn of his cycle he may have been overexaggerating his bad traits? Maybe he gets angry when he's down, thus the temper, and he's translated this as "violent and aggressive". My mum does this all the time, and it's really saddening to hear you all taking this man at his word and saying "avoid, avoid!" when he could be at the point where he loathes himself so much he'd say such awful things.

YANBU to be careful, OP, as every case is different. But tbh although most people with severe mental health issues need a much stronger partner, sometimes having someone to look after can give them the boost they need.

I think everyone understands that there could be conflicting emotions going on with this man and that many of them won't be entirely rational but due to his illness. Regardless of that, the friend in this story has only been on two dates and is already feeling uncomfortable with his behaviour. So what if he loathes himself or is exaggerating his symptoms? How is that anyone else's responsibility?

My concern would be that someone who is described as 'vulnerable and emotionally unstable' could be feeling a sense of obligation at this point... worried that finishing with him would upset him too much. If it's not working, for whatever reason, then she has to walk away.

Bi polar is a bit of a 'buzz' word isn't it? Is she SURE he has been properly diagnosed? She barely knows him, he could be spinning her a story......a 'reason' for his aggression, or an excuse.

I have no advice but in my experience, my brother has Bi Polar disorder, they do have a tendency to stop taking their medication because they feels it 'does no good' - and this, again IMO, is largely due to the fact that the meds are working because the patient will be feeling well at the time that they feel the meds are 'doing no good'. The meds stop and gradually the mania returns and the patient has a relapse.....its a vicious circle.

When my brother is taking his meds he is pleasant and kind. A 'normal' person. When he stops his meds he becomes a totally different man. He changes, pyhsically and mentally. He looks so different and at these times he is scary, I wouldn't trust his temper. With the right guidance he will resume his meds and the mania settles.

I think its very sad the people with and type of MH disorder is segregated from society. IMO they probably need to be integrated to maintain some grasp of 'normality' and these people need relationships they can depend upon, people that can be strong when things relapse....
I'm not certain if I have a point to my post but I wanted to share a little of they way I see the Bi Polar picture.

Shocking typos and grammar, apologies!

Ok, I'll be blunt: introducing a violent man into a 5 yr old child's life is wrong.

I think if your friend is fragile and vulnerable then seeking to pursue a relationship with another who is also vulnerable and in need of support may not be the best thing for any of them, least of all the child.

If she were in a better stronger place personally and able to offer a supportive relationship to this guy whilst simultaneously providing a nurturing and safe environment for her daughter to grow in then I would say consider it. However she isn't sooooo .............

I think she needs to back off a bit and just be friends with him. No intimate relationship, no strings blah blah. She needs to protect herself and her child right not. Nobody in a fragile state themselves will be able to cope with a long-term partner who has MH issues and doesn't take meds. She is not in a position to do anything more than be friends with him.

I think for both of their sakes they need to not be together.

Fragility attracts fragility and I'd be suprised if any of the men your friend is attracting at the moment would be suitable for her as she has her own problems.

I would personally not have a relationship with a man who I knew had ongoing mental health issues. My father had them, and I just don't have the energy or the interest in putting everyone, including myself, through that again, where essentially, everyone lives around the illness of that person. I just couldn't do it. I wouldn't worry about someone who had had a breakdown in the past, or got depressed if something bad happened, but living with intractable and not not always medicatable (if that's a word) oingoing mental health issues isn't fun. I especially wouldn't hook up with some one who was not taking medication, but told me they had mood swings and was violent. Just no way.

Personally, if my mum took me, as a five year old, into a relationship with someone with that set of problems, I would be extremely annoyed that they didn't protect me better. It's a little different if you are with someone for a long time, then they develop problems, you have an ongoing committment to help them, but even then, I think if someone is likely to be destructive to you or your children (e.g. chronic alcoholic, serious mental health issues, little prospect of improvement), then running away is sometimes the best thing to do to protect them.

YANBU

To bring someone with a known anger management problem but who refuses to accept medical help into close contact with a young child who is not a relative is an utter recipe for disaster.

My reading on him blurting this all out is that he then has a very convenient excuse for running the relationship on his terms, and your friend would have to fit in with him or else be accused of not being understanding enough, etc.

I would be very wary and warn my friend off.

YADNBU, but IHMO perhaps not for the reason of his BP disorder.

I have some experience of BPD, & agree with whyisthatthen as regards sufferers having a tendency to dump their meds & think they don't need them when its actually because the meds ARE working for them, & yes they can be difficult people at times, but that shouldn't rule out a relationship.

Alarm bells rang for me, when you describe your friend as vunerable,(can't spell for toffee today & then she has a guy chasing after her who owns up to having aggressive tendencies & is then very full on with his advances.

boffinmum makes a good point about him being so upfront, as it allows him to run the relationship on HIS terms ...that & the fact he is attracted & then very full on with someone you describe as vunerable is a FAR bigger worry than his BPD ........it smacks of a potential abuser to me

OP I would advise your friend to keep him at arms length, & do a lot of fishing around to get some good solid background info on him, its quite likely that people she works with may know something, & that could be why he was seemingly so honest.

It could be genuine, as I agree with the poster above who says that, they do tend to "blurt", but coupled with the rest of it, it sounds suspect, so DO trust your instincts

Heracles, did you read the OP? The issue is not this man's mental illness, it is the fact that he (for reasons we don't know) is not seeking help and support for his symptoms, despite the fact they seem to disrupt his life. Being agressive and throwing things is not acceptable behaviour, would you not agree?

Loftylorrie, I don't know how your mother experiences her bi-polar but it sounds as though she doesn't get violent or agressive? In which case she may be able to manage her symptoms very well, as lots of people can. However that is not the same as someone who cannot manage their symptoms and becomes agressive. You know your mother and, I assume, have no problem with her being around your children etc. Would you really feel the same if she was a stranger who had voluntarily told you she could become agressive?

I think it's highly commendable that people are seeming to jump to the defence of people with MH problems, but please afford them the same status as poeple without. A violent man who does not seek help is a violent man who does not seek help. End of.

Heracles, the problem is not that he is bi-polar, but that he admits to aggressive behaviour, which includes throwing and smashing things. Surely it doesn't take a vast amount of imagination to realise that this could be an extremely frightening experience for a small child to witness in her stepfather. At the very least, I think her mother should take things slowly and try to find out the extent of his behaviour.

The OPs friend is not obliged to take the risk of exposing her dd to something that might have an adverse effect on her. A relationship with any given woman is not a human right. I think it is worth reflecting on the fact that several of the posters who have grown up with aggressive bipolar induced behaviour have found it frightening. The OPs first duty is to her child, not to a man she has only recently met.

Heracles, the trouble is not that he is bi-polar per se, but that he becomes violent. HE BECOMES VIOLENT.

alarm bells are ringing

He is making no attempt to control his bi-polar, even though its effects sounds pretty damn severe.

What is he doing? Instead, he's laying down the effects for her in a "this is what you're getting, you knew what I was like, you can't leave me now" manner.

He is persuading her to accept this as something that needs to be part of her daughter's life.

It's great to be kind and empathetic and to have an attitude to fellow humans that is not discriminatory.

However, to be all of the above does not have to involve welcoming all sorts of people into your life. The people that do this in wisdom are independent and they are strong. They are able to withstand the drain others can be on one's own resources and/or they do so within organisations (Mind, Shelter, MenCap, etc. etc. etc.) that have practises in place designed to protect them as a member of staff or volunteer.

Your friend is not strong emotionally at this point in her life, she is not independent - she has a vulnerable daughter. Therefore, it is not her place to step in and shoulder this man's problems. For as sure as eggs is eggs, however much she is attracted to him and values his personality and kindness, what he has to offer will be a shadow of what she will be compelled to offer him once fully involved.

If your friend believes for a second that partnerships should be equal then consider the inequality in a carer role. If this man declines medication then even more onus is on his partner to show patience and tolerance. Her DD doesn't even get to make the choice.

Thanks for all your replies.

Chill1234 - I think "bombard" was my phrasing, not hers. He sent her lots of lovely texts and called her quite a few times, in a nice way, not a stalkerish OTT way as far as I can tell.

I met them both today for lunch and it's a little more complicated than I first thought. Although her and I work together we work in a massive place, there's literally hundreds of staff on various rotas so I didn't think that I would know this guy- but I do! He and I had been on a few dates ages ago . She didn't know about this as it was at a time she was going through some hard times and we had mainly been discussing her problems whenever we met. He is a very sweet guy and although I suspected he had some issues of some kind I didn't know he is bipolar (which is a confirmed diagnosis for him btw, not just something he has tagged himself as). We didn't take it any further than a few dates as although he didn't do anything wrong in particular there was something not quite "right" about him and I can't stand people who play games - which is what I thought he was doing.

I've told her now and she's fine with it. She likes him but says she is going to see how it goes and even if it goes well that it will be a long term before she is even considering letting him meet her daughter.

Oh and moraldisorder - you are right, about fragility attracting fragility. I've never thought about it before but it is often those who are emotionally weak that attractive others in the same situation.

Desiderata: "They have a tendency to blurt."

Really? Do we? Fascinating, cheers for the helpful insight into my character. Good to see you're not applying a stupid stereotype to bipolar people.

Anonymosity, could you expand on your observation that "unfortunately there is no such thing as "only bi-polar" as no one person's symptoms are exactly the same as the next person's"?

You know what would be awesome? If people would stop taking their fucking anecdata and applying it to all people with bipolar disorder ("my brother in law is bipolar and he xyz's, therefore the majority of bipolar people xyz!"). It is stupid, it is offensive, and it makes you look like a bit of a fool.

I think it would be awesome if everyone would shut up about bi-polar, it's not the issue here.

OP, hope your friend makes a decision that's right for her and her daughter

Tell her to run for the hills. She doesn't need this.