to think Ed Milliband should have married his partner before having their 2nd child?

[Gooftroop]

One child, fine. Maybe it was a surprise, these things happen, marriage is so yesterday, no problem. But to go on building a family without legally committing himself to his partner ... I am unimpressed. AIBU?

or, even worse, it's really a problem when people take the results of large-scale research and use it to judge individuals.

Oh please. We had our first 2 DDs before getting married. If/when people asked us about getting married, I used to reply things like 'just haven't got round to it' in order to fob them off and that was speaking to people I knew, never mind the media.

In reality it was a lot more complicated involving things like family politics, logistics (we lived abroad), my pregnancies etc etc. I didn't feel the need to explain these. Being married wasn't (and still isn't) very important to me. Having a family while we were young enough to do so was, So we prioritised the latter.

And you seem to think that this decision is EM's alone! Perhaps he is desperate to get married but his partner isn't?

Damselindisgrace - Those are problems with people not with large scale quantative research ;)

well the 'problem' with large-scale research is that it can't say anything about individual circumstances. There are always problems with different kinds of research, that's why researchers spend so bloody long discussing the various limitations and mitigating factors in their studies. That doesn't stop the press sweeping in and ignoring all that with an attention grabbing headline: 'Married couples have healthier children because they eat fewer biscuits'.

gooftroop - You can have an opinion on whatever you like.

But if I don't agree with it I'm going to ask you why you hold that opinion, and if you cite 'studies' I'm going to ask which ones.

"...children do best when raised by
two married parents who have low-conflict relationships."

Children do best when raised by parents who have a low-conflict relationship - their marital states in neither here nor there.

mmmm, creme de menthe.

Peace and love, comrades.

DamselInDisgrace - The 'problem' is that people are stupid.

This applies to most problems to be honest.

I agree with MmeLindt

My DP asked me to marry him.
I didn't want to be married.
Sometimes i think maybe i should have just done it as it would have made him happy,but once we'd had DD and DS1 and 2 there really didn't seem to be alot of point.
I always trusted him and him me.

Well, that is very true. People being stupid is always going to be a problem (and I include myself in the stupid category).

However, it doesn't mean that dealing with the general rather than the particular can't be a 'problem' for certain types of research. Strengths and weaknesses and all that... The point is, any research that tells you about how children in general do in whatever circumstances is resolutely not supposed to tell you about individual circumstances. I should probably have phrased the first post on this as 'the thing about' rather than 'the problem with'.

I don't care if he is married or not-it's no reflection on his abilities as a father at all.

The only time I get annoyed about the 'marriage or not' issue is when people who are UNmarried want same rights as married people. This DOES pee me off as it takes away freedom of choice. In other words, I want the choice to say when I am formally committed to another adult. I do NOT wish the state to make it for ME just because I've lived with someone for a while.

As long as Ed and partner don't start going on about how 'unfair' it is that they don't have similar rights to married people and sort out their own private financial arrangements without expecting state to intervene in event of a future split, they're fine by me.

I totally disagree with MmeLindt. Creme de Menthe is vile.

DamselInDisgrace - One of the examples of people's stupidity is that they don't understand this 'any research that tells you about how children in general do in whatever circumstances is resolutely not supposed to tell you about individual circumstances', even when you tell them so.

I'm trying to get to a point about the failure of education in this country, but I keep not quite getting there.

This kind of basic epistomology (doing x means y happens more often != if you do x you get y)
should be primary school stuff.

marantha that would be fine if it wasn't for all the baggage that comes from marriage. I would like the legal rights that marriage provides without said baggage - and yes I am one of those people who objects to being referred to as Mrs .

Why is that wrong? I know some people can ensure financial security by having a will but for us a will would not have been enough and my children would have missed out (as would I, but that would have been my choice) and for the financial bits that could be dealt with by a will, not being married would have made probate much longer and in what would be a stressful time was not something I would want.

Now am rambling!

chortle.......thank you...I needed a good laugh today!

I am married because I wanted to be

Some people SHOCK HORROR!!!! dont want to be.

There are plenty of kids I know being brought up in toxic households where their parents are married amd miserable.

Better to have happy kids and be co habiting or single, surely??

passthechocs - You can get married ans still continue to call yourself whatever the hell you like. You don't even need to tell people you are married.

I completely agree with you coalition. It is a failure of education.

coalition I thought that but still get called Mrs etc by lots of people - including family

I got married only because I didn't want my older relatives, and my DP's older relatives, to feel sad or confused. It just seemed like a kindness to them. Plus a vague feeling that I would be some sort of social no-hoper if I didn't organise a wedding event. Like not cooking Christmas dinner.

Marriage means absolutely bugger, bugger all to me. I care about Ed's marital status about as much as I care whether or not he plays backgammon.

passthechocs.
Marriage need NOT have any baggage attached to it- the baggage is all in people's heads.
Marriage is fundamentally a declaration to the legal system govt that two people wish to tie themselves together as a unit.
Sorry to be unromantic, but that it is what it is all about.

Now whether people do or not (marry) is their call. I don't care. What does seriously get on my wick is when cohabitees moan (like children) ' 'snot fair' when they are told, 'Sorry, no marriage, no right to half partner's house because you didn't formally tell us of your coupleship'.

I mean, do these people think the state has a crystal ball and can know all about their interpersonal relationships with another adult?! It's so unrealistic of them to expect this.

passthechocs - get a PhD ;)

Or a knighthood.

I get called Mrs DS1's surname all the time, even though I've never been married to his dad. I also get called Mrs DS2's/DH's surname regularly, although I've always gone by Ms InDisgrace. Soon I shall be going by Dr InDisgrace, but I doubt anyone will ever use it.

I don't really care. Mostly I prefer everyone to call me Damsel.