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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that The Guardian could have found something to replace this interview with Lily Allen?

93 replies

Unrulysun · 08/11/2010 16:33

The first paragraph is basically 'I conducted this interview two weeks ago before her miscarriage and now it all seems very sad' then there's a not entirely sympathetic interview. Then the last paragraph is a quote about how she was unhappiest in her life right after her (previous) miscarriage ending with 'I'm about to have a baby, which is what I've always wanted'

I think they should have torn up this interview in the light of what has happened to her. I am really disappointed in this editorial decision. And I'm really just having a rant about it. So that's BU right there but fuck's sake can't we be decent to people who've suffered a bereavement anymore?

OP posts:
Unwind · 09/11/2010 09:48

BM "...it is good business to be respectful of people in such situations..."

not if you've written off their future career

utterly scummy of the ghouls at the grauniad to print this

AitchTwoOh · 09/11/2010 09:54

i didn't find the article sneering, however i am shocked that it ran in any form. agree entirely with the corens that it is an ethical call that is required, not a phone call.

MmeLindt · 09/11/2010 09:58

deepheat
there is some uncertainty about the PR people giving the go ahead. Her PR man, Murray Chalmers has since denied giving the go-ahead. Perhaps it was someone else on her staff.

The worst thing about the article is not that it was run, but that it was run almost unaltered. It needed a major major rewrite to make it in any way acceptable.

HabbiBOOM · 09/11/2010 10:00

At 6 months a m/c is essentially a stillbirth - you deliver a miniature but utterly recognisable baby. They have tiny finger and toenails, the beginnings of eyebrows - all they need to do to look like a newborn is get bigger and fatter. The term "late miscarriage" is misleading in this respect, and I do wonder if some people (eg Ian Katz) don't get this - I'm absolutely not trying to play down the pain of early m/c either, btw - but do they understand that she'll have delivered a dead baby, probably held him or her in her arms, and then at some point had to lay the wee one down and say goodbye? Because that fucking breaks your heart.

Crap, Guardian. Just crap.

HabbiBOOM · 09/11/2010 10:01

Really, hassled? Bloody hell. Could she maybe show him the m/c code of practice threads?

AbsofCroissant · 09/11/2010 10:01

YANBU

It's hideous. A couple of years ago Caitlin Moran wrote something about miscarriage (when there was a big thing on MN about it - prior to me joining, so not sure about the details) and about the cack-handed, insensitive and idiotic way it's handled by hospitals in the UK. She said "these women have carried death inside them". Stupid journalist and stupid editor should have thought about it.

Glad I don't read the Guardian anyway - the holier than though sneering tone gets right up my nose.

QueeferSutherBANG · 09/11/2010 10:02

Poor form, Katz.

MmeLindt · 09/11/2010 10:05

Maybe it is something that the Guardian could pick up on, the way that m/c is seen in UK.

An article highlighting the kind of thing that happens daily in UK hospitals - you only have to read some of the heartbreaking m/c threads - would be great.

I think the miscarriage campaign could do with being stepped up, actually. Not sure if anything is going on but it would be good to get a bit more active about it.

AitchTwoOh · 09/11/2010 10:07

yes, late miscarriage is totally, utterly bogus terminology. dd2 was born at 7 mos, didn't even need to be in SCBU. she was perfect, just a skinny mini human who needed a lot of cuddling to bring her up to speed. it will be utterly, utterly devastating for Lily Allen to know that if she had got ill later, not got ill etc etc that everything would still be okay. (assuming her illness is the reason for the stillbirth, i suppose that hasn't been confirmed).

i lost pregnancies right at the beginning and the what ifs were torturous and the sense of a MASSIVE life gear change was enormous. without in any way wishing to co-opt her pain, it really is so upsetting, really and truly, to think of that poor girl going through it twice, and so late on in the day.

MrsTittleMouse · 09/11/2010 10:17

I disagree deepheat - I have been thrown suddenly into grief (not a miscarriage, have been extremely lucky in that way).

I was in such a state, I couldn't think, couldn't eat, I could barely do anything. I wanted to shave my head, I wanted to howl, I can remember people coming around to visit me and I couldn't hear a word that they said, I just sat there and nodded.

And I wasn't ill at the time, unlike Lily who has that burden to deal with too, on top of the physical strain of losing the baby, and the hormonal rollercoaster. I just can't imagine the hell that she is going through. :( How do they possibly think that she could make any kind of decision in that state? How did they possibly think that it was OK to bother her when she was going through all that? Angry

emptyshell · 09/11/2010 10:26

MmeLindt I'd love to see any campaign stepped up to be honest because it's still nowhere near well-handled in this country (it's one of the reasons I'm so open and outspoken - to fight the perception it's something that goes on behind closed doors that we don't talk about in case it upsets people). Going to sidetrack slightly here since my losses all occur at about the same point in the cycle in the first trimester.

The last one I lost was about 11 weeks by the time it was finally declared over, and, although the staff in the EPU were as kind and caring as it's possible to be - the EPU was shoved right in the far corner of the hospital. You had to walk past the shiny new refurbished maternity and ante-natal departments, down progressively more and more dingy corridors, till you got to the arse end of nowhere. It all spells out the impression that you don't matter - you're not going in their shiny happy corporate propaganda, you're a group they have to treat unwillingly.

Sat in the waiting area for scans - you can tell who's had what outcome. You watch them emerge from the scan room either clutching an envelope with a scan photo inside, or a leaflet on how to miscarry - I dubbed the machine and room The Sorting Dildo (from the lovely term dildocam which describes the internal scanner they tend to use in early pregnancy scans so well), because it did feel like a bizarre version of Harry Potter and you getting sorted into team envelope or team leaflet... how I longed to walk out of that room with an envelope.

If it's bad news, you get essentially abandoned, left to it for pushing a fortnight (at least in my PCT) while they leave you to cook in case things are just earlier than they thought - horrible how abandoned and alone you feel, wondering if you're going to start to lose or not - your whole life gets put on hold. In my last case I was very unlucky and had to do the two week wait twice since the first rescan showed a second sac, and possibly developments in the first sac - a whole month of limbo. No one contacts you, your GP by this time hasn't even been notified of what's going on - you're just left to it.

After I had surgery when they ruled the fight well and truly over (my poor body hung onto things like a trooper - I'm seriously proud of it for its efforts there), again, you're pretty much left to it. The only aftercare I've had has come from ME chasing - two months down the line, I still haven't restarted periods, no one's ever offered counselling or anything like that - quite simply, no one cares or has the resources to care. The comments on here when I mentioned how I'd felt daft, stupid or a fraud playing with the idea of being a mum and other people mentioned they thought it was only them who felt like that - they kind of show how alone you are after it all.

I'd LOVE the miscarriage campaign to be stepped up. I'd love some linked up system whereby the NHS manages to organize cancelling your midwife appointments when a loss is confirmed, I'd love for notifications of what's going on to be passed to GPs sooner - so you didn't have to go and explain it all to them without them having any idea you were no longer pregnant, I'd love just someone to phone or write and say, look support is here if you need it... anything other than being sent out of a manky room with a crappy leaflet and left to it alone. You have these women grieving for what is, essentially a bereavment of not only their child, but their entire view of the future of their life, with the natural hormonal issues and emotional turmoil of pregnancy - and there's no aftercare out there. You've got women who suffer retained tissue, infections, Ashermans and other complications - and no one bothers to diagnose or follow up on them unless THEY go along and shout and push for that help.

...and don't get me started on the fact they refer to the babies we lose at an early stage as "Products of Conception" and the surgical option with that delightful "Evacuation of Retained Products of Conception"... I've fought that particular battle all the way through my own saga!

I think the MN campaign concentrated a lot on the practicalities like scan access at weekends and the like - but the aftercare/follow-up issues need to be addressed too. We shouldn't HAVE to be sitting there trying to self-diagnose if not having a period for months is normal, or retained products, or ashermans - we shouldn't have to be peeing on pregnancy sticks for weeks to check if our system's returning to normal... you wouldn't leave a new mother without any after-birth support so why the chuffing hell is it ok for us?

Sorry - thread's probably moved on in the time I've typed all that and it's now irrelevant but it was in response to MmeLindt's post at 10.05.

MmeLindt · 09/11/2010 11:13

Emptyshell
I am sorry that you had such a bad experience, and that it is sadly uncommon. There are too many threads on MN similar to your post.

Perhaps we should put our weight and our anger towards something worthwhile.

daimbardiva · 09/11/2010 11:50

Geez, I don't know what can be gained by that at all. I don't see how it would raise awareness of the pain of miscarriage. All it does is underline incredibly insensitively just how very unfortunate Lily Allen has been, and draw more of the type of attention to her she'd pointed out she now wanted to avoid.

Not what I'd expect of the Guardian at all Confused

AntPants1 · 09/11/2010 13:22

I have emailed the editor of the Guardian to express my disgust at this. As someone who lost a baby at 20 weeks my heart goes out to Lily. The editor should hang his head in shame for kicking someone when they are already down.

emptyshell · 09/11/2010 13:27

AntPants1 - I've had no reply to the mail I sent last night yet... not expecting one to be honest.

yellowflowers · 09/11/2010 14:14

I thought they shouldn't have run it too

Triggles · 09/11/2010 16:10

horrible article...

emptyshell - I can really relate to some of the comments you've made. I think my breaking point was when the nurse we saw after the scan (MMC) said to us that we "need to make an appointment for the scrape." Shock

lalalonglegs · 12/11/2010 12:42

Funny how no mention of readers' responses to the article was made in G2's regular "Reader's Room" double-page spread today Hmm.

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