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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that The Guardian could have found something to replace this interview with Lily Allen?

93 replies

Unrulysun · 08/11/2010 16:33

The first paragraph is basically 'I conducted this interview two weeks ago before her miscarriage and now it all seems very sad' then there's a not entirely sympathetic interview. Then the last paragraph is a quote about how she was unhappiest in her life right after her (previous) miscarriage ending with 'I'm about to have a baby, which is what I've always wanted'

I think they should have torn up this interview in the light of what has happened to her. I am really disappointed in this editorial decision. And I'm really just having a rant about it. So that's BU right there but fuck's sake can't we be decent to people who've suffered a bereavement anymore?

OP posts:
LittleWhiteWolf · 08/11/2010 21:07

I've never had a miscarriage but this article has deeply upset me even so. I just feel wretched for Lily Allen--am totally disgusted by the Guardians actions. Its easy to rationalise why they printed it, but it was the wrong thing to do.

WashingBasketMonster · 08/11/2010 21:13

The whole tone of the article was judgemental and bitter from the point of the journalist, yet with the top headline and bottom paragraph highlighting what the public already know happened.

This is such a disservice to Lily Allen regardless of whether her PR team approved it or not. Lily is probably still too lost in grief to notice but it has made me question the Guardians principles.

theevildead2 · 08/11/2010 21:22

chandallina bit cynical but as Lilly had been ill leading up to her miscarriage I did wonder if they had left the article until a bit later to see if anything "of interest" would happen

Tolalola · 08/11/2010 21:22

That was a ghastly piece. I'm pretty horrified that they would run it. Nasty, nasty, nasty.

MmeLindt · 08/11/2010 22:10

Curiouser and curiouser.

PR man for Lily Allen tweeted:

@murraychalmers murray chalmers
Very annoying to hear that The Guardian are apparently claiming I supported their decision to print the Lily Allen interview today.

Very strange. Seems to have been crossed wires someplace.

Northernlurker · 08/11/2010 22:12

Oh dear Sad

backwardpossom · 08/11/2010 22:16

That's terrible Sad

InMyPrime · 08/11/2010 22:46

That article read like it had started out as a snarky piece that wanted to 'expose' Lily Allen as someone who had only got into music for money and who was getting corporate sponsorship etc but then afterwards, the journalist decided to show a tiny smidgen of mercy and re-write it a little because of the miscarriage. She didn't really do a good job though as it still comes across as sneering.

Can't imagine how it would feel to read this stuff when you've had a stillbirth/late MC. After I went back to work from my MMC, I told no-one what had happened to me. People speculate though and one woman speculated to a friend of mine that I'd had a miscarriage and said 'oh the best thing you can do is just get on with it and start facing people. I mean I've had health problems too, I had three Caesareans' (all healthy children lived to adulthood). I really want that woman to die in a fire, ever since I heard she had say that. I would happily punch her if I could.

It hurts so much when people think they can judge an MC or make statements about how you feel or should be so I can't even imagine how horrendous it would be to read some snarky article in the national media about yourself, written in a sneering tone, almost laughing at you for being stupid enough to get your hopes up about becoming a mother. It's too much. It shows how little understanding most people have of miscarriage / stillbirth - the fact that you have to give birth fully at that stage etc. Some papers were even speaking about Lily Allen haven't 'caught' septicaemia' as though it was a separate illness, rather than a complication of her miscarriage. When people know nothing, it's better they keep their opinions to themselves. Same with this article, if they couldn't do a good job of it, they should have just scrapped it.

emptyshell · 09/11/2010 07:37

chandellina - if they were anything like my mum - they were probably still trying to work out whatever they'd written in shorthand said three weeks later!

Even more terrible to find out that the PR's "consent" isn't as cast-iron as the Guardian was saying it was. It's absolutely sickened me - I've never been a Lily Allen fan, but god it was painful reading knowing how events panned out (obviously heavily coloured by my own personal experience) and just being able to have some understanding.

I too reckon they'd hung on to the interview (joking about shorthand aside) in the hope of something happening, or running it after the birth or something - the timing's just too bizarre... or they'd decided the interview wasn't actually newsworthy at all with her new lower profile and weren't going to pull it - till bad things happened and someone found it mouldering on a desk in the office somewhere.

I sent an email complaining last night - which will no doubt be ignored (and no doubt the grammar on it is attrocious with the red mist I was typing it through).

fishes through her sent items to copy/paste

I'm disgusted, gutter journalism at it's worst.

To open with the comments that "Parts of what Allen said are almost too painful to bear now, for just 10 days after we met she lost her baby" yet to run the article anyway - is utterly utterly despicable. It's intentional and callous to generate a wave of outcry and thus visitors to the site - so I guess it succeded then.

To leave, unedited, the final paragraph: "I ask her when she has been happiest. "Now." And unhappiest? "I suppose after my miscarriage, that was a pretty awful time."But you know, on the flip side, two years later I'm in a really happy relationship, in the house of my dreams, and about to have a baby, which is what I've always wanted" is, whatever her PR people said, akin to pouring acid an open wound of her grief.

WHATEVER her PR people said - if that poor woman picks up the newspaper, she's going to be reminded of the hopes, dreams and future she planned out which she's now been robbed of. She's going to be brutally reminded about how happy she was before the latest tragedy happened - and she's going to hurt, more than you can possibly imagine. I suffer from recurrent miscarriages - one of the hardest parts of the grief each loss causes you is those moments you become aware of the utterly stark before and after contrast - from your world being so full of hope and looking to the future, to, within the space of a few days, the world becoming bleak, cold and unbearably painful. Printing your article is like rubbing her nose in the hopes and dreams she's currently grieving for.

It's also excruciatingly painful to read as someone who most recently miscarried two months ago. All of the women I've spoken to affected by miscarriage have said similar - it reminds them of the moment in THEIR lives that the world faded from a brightly coloured summer day of looking to the future... to the grey and black of their post-loss grief. It reminds them of the feelings they had of thinking they were going to be a mother, and how stupid they subsequently felt when everything was so quickly lost - and you DO feel stupid, you feel stupid, naive, like you were somehow a fake "playing" at being an expectant mother. All those feelings - rush right back to the fore again when I read her interview.

Publishing it wasn't an act of raising awareness, it wasn't an act of responsible journalism, it was mawkish voyerism, a "look what we got - the bird who lost her baby talking about it all before she lost it - I bet the other guys haven't got that." It was disgusting, insensitive, and, as the child of a family of journalists, it makes me hang my head in shame at the depths a generally-regarded as decent newspaper has sunk to.

You can sit and gloat about it all you want on the mindless e-tit-for-tat that is Twitter - there are hundreds of thousands of people out there disgusted by the newspaper's actions in this. If you consider miscarriage affects anywhere between 1 in 4 and 1 in 5 pregnancies in the UK - that's an awful lot of very offended people, before we add in those who are just genuinely decent folk who also think it was a disgusting action.

I'm not the most eloquent at expressing my views in a written form at the best of times - especially when actions render me speechless - as this has done. Even the much derided Daily Mail approached the reporting of the story with more tact and sensitivity - not qualities it's generally known for!

Yours disgustedly,
Mrs Very Very Cross (obviously not how I signed it off really)

Northernlurker · 09/11/2010 08:11

Good work on that letter - a very eloquent statement of how you feel.

MyPrettyFloralBonnet · 09/11/2010 08:32

Thank you emptyshell, both for the eloquent e mail, and because after my mmc I also felt like a fool, it's always bothered me why I felt like that.

And whilst I doubt the Guardian has either the conscious or good grace to apologise for this appalling decision they really should note they're being (quite rightly) unfavourably compared to the Daily Mail, a newspaper that annoys me so much I won't even use it to line the cat litter tray!

emptyshell · 09/11/2010 08:42

It's funny how we all seem to feel like that - especially with missed miscarriages... the scan was like "Surprise! No one's home! - and you've been looking at pushchairs you silly woman!" (sorry if that offends anyone, I have quite a dark sense of humour to cope with life - I was also quite bizarrely proud when they DIDN'T have a leaflet to cover my contingency to be honest - like "hah hah I beat you").

MmeLindt · 09/11/2010 08:44

Wonderful letter. Obviously journalism is in your blood.

Unrulysun · 09/11/2010 08:54

Emptyshell I think you've voiced something which lots of people will identify with in this feeling of having been overly optimistic or 'playacting' a role. It's certainly overtly there in the interview as well. Thanks for putting it into words for me as I had been unable to identify it. :)

OP posts:
MyPrettyFloralBonnet · 09/11/2010 09:14

I wasn't brave enough to go on any forums after it, which looking back obviously would have helped, but I found it such a strange reaction it didn't occur to me it was common. It was harder to deal with than the "Was it my fault? Is it because I'm disabled? Too old? etc", so for the Guardian to publish this permanent record of the hopes Lily Allen had suggests either they have no experience of this or a complete inability to empathize with a suffering human being.

working9while5 · 09/11/2010 09:18

The worst part is that Ian Katz is defending the decision to the hilt on twitter.

I think we should boycott the Guardian for this Angry

emptyshell · 09/11/2010 09:27

Am I the only one who hates Twitter?

It's like the playground "I'm not talking to yoooouuu"..."Fred tell Johnny he smells for me"..."Betty, Johnny says I have to tell you he smells" brought to a whole new level.

IntergalacticHussy · 09/11/2010 09:29

god that's foul. basically the guardian running real life misery porn. to sum up 'just a few days ago she thought she would be so happy but now look...' awful decision.

no one expects to lose a baby at 6 months, and the guardian takes full advantage of that fact. bastards. who cares if it was okd by her people? don't newspapers have any morality of their own?

Glad i've switched to The Independent.

FindingMyMojo · 09/11/2010 09:35

running the article was very poor taste Confused

working9while5 · 09/11/2010 09:39

Emptyshell, I've never been on twitter.. but had a look after reading this thread. I see what you mean.. but also, it seems weird that you would justify your work online as yourself. I am much more cross since reading the tweets about this issue.

Hassled · 09/11/2010 09:44

emptyshell - that's a great letter; I hope you get a decent response, one which someone seems to have thought about.

deepheat · 09/11/2010 09:45

Apologies to go against the grain here, but if her PR said it was OK to run the interview then they were quite right to do so - the fact that they stated this suggests that they actually contacted them to ask the question, which is more then they needed to do.

She pays her PR to make these decisions either with or without her consent - I'd like to think that on an issue like this they would have double checked with her before making a call and she's said OK. Let's not get indignant on her behalf. I'm not a Guardian reader (anymore) but they're hardly the most exploitative rag around are they?

MollysChambers · 09/11/2010 09:46

Awful.

The Sun ran a front page headline re her septicaemia refering to her as "Baby Loss Lil". Found that shockingly insensitive too. I know its the Sun but FFS.

deepheat · 09/11/2010 09:46

Hmmmmm. Didn't read whole thread. Apologies.

Hassled · 09/11/2010 09:46

Isn'y Ian Katz married to JustineMN? He should have asked her to ask us - we'd have put him straight before it came to this mess.