To think you shouldn't have to be a Christian to be a Rainbow??

[CommanderDrool]

So DD1 has joined Rainbows and after her session last week parents were given a letter to take home which was basically a telling off.

The leader was disappointed that no one came along to the church service last week, and the Rainbows were not represented.

Now I am happy to help out, attend fairs, supportthe Rainbows but I am an atheist, so is DP, and I do not want to go to church.

So am I being unreasonable? Should I just take DD1 to church even though I think it is a load of superstition?

It is a Christian organisation isn't it?

I taken it she hasn't made her promise yet then........

no.

yanbu. you do not have to attend church or support any faith to be a rainbow.

The leader has a right to ask people to attend rainbows events. or was this just a "why aren' you coming to church"? type letter

Weeeel

Yes she has done her promise. But I didn't expect her to have to attend church.

I like the social and fun aspects of it. All her friends go. I am happy to help with whatever else and we did attend the church autumn fair as a family.

Is it for Christians only then?

Rainbow Promise

Rainbows make a simple Promise: 'I promise that I will do my best to love my God and be kind and helpful'.

My daughter was a rainbow and a brownie for a while. we are Jewish (non practising), no one ever asked why we didnt go to church.

I think you are talking about a church parade? in which case it is expected that some Rainbows/Brownies/Guides etc. go, take their flags and so on, and maybe contribute to the service in some way.

In the promise (sorry can't remember the fully words) it is a promise to "my God" which imo encompasses all faiths. (but I guess not inclusive if you/your family are atheist)

I agree with SGM

I think it is quite clear when you join these groups that are broadly church-based what their ethos is. It is then up to individual opinion if you are of a different faith or atheist if you want to join up.

Perhaps you could have a low key chat with the leader or send a short polite note outlining your position and informing her that for the reasons outlined you are happy to support your daughter in her activities but this does not include attending services?

Yes you see I think that promise is fine. If Dd1 wants to be a believer that's fine by me.

But this was a real ticking off. I think the boys brigade were there etc

She doesn't 'have' to attend church, although church parade is traditional, especially if the unit meets in a church hall, where they often use church resources and get reduced/cheap room rental.

Church parade is often seen as a way of showing the Rainbows support and thanks to the community, although I think its a bit grim when parents are guilted into taking the girls along.

However, this Guider will have turned up, probably doesn't want to be there just like you, to look after the girls only for none to turn up. You can see why she was a bit miffed not to be in bed

Does your dd want to attend one of the services?

Yes a note might be in order. That's a good idea.

It depends whether the group is church sponsored or not. Dcs group are church sponsored and go once a month to church, other package go 4 times a year.

Ignore
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The Promise includes faith, but it does not have to be to the Christian God. So attendance at one particular religion's observaces is optional.

If however you want a non-faith environment, you would be better off seeking a secular youth organisation.

On a personal note when I was a brownie (many decades ago!) there was immense pressure on the brownies (and later as a guide) to attend the "church parade"

It used to upset me as a young child. My dad let me attend the meetings, but not the CofE services. (we were members of an extreme weirdo stricter denomination so he would not let us to go the church parade)

That is why I asked what your dd feels about attending.

I wish he had had a little word with Brown Owl or whoever then I would not have felt upset and guilty.

The Brownie promise is 'I promise that I will do my best to love my God and be kind and helpful'.

If she (you) have no intention of keeping it, you shouldn't let her make it and she shouldn't be a Rainbow.

Although obviously, you don't have to attend church to love God, personally I do think that if you're going to take advantage of these groups, run by volunteers, you need to support all their work.

Is the issue then more with the tone of the letter then whether or not you have to be a believer to be a member? If the latter then I think generally you would be BU as obviously you can choose to join or not and religious organisations shouldn't IMO be forced to accomodate non believers. If they are a church group and going to church is part of it, it seems reasonable that they would ask you to attend. I seem to remember from Brownies we had to do church parade one sunday a month and I went along even though my family is not remotely religious. Is there not some other group she could join that is secular?

A friend who is a Guider has been staying with us this weekend and we discussed just this kind of thing.

She was saying that they use a church hall and get a reduced rent on it but that was the church "doing their thing" in supporting the community. She was happy to and regularly does say thank you but would rather pay full rent than have an obligation to attend worship.

She also said that the latest Guiding guidelines say that visiting a place of worship and learning about it is a Guiding activity and it is good for Guides to be supported in their chosen faith, but attending an act of worship as a unit was not a Guiding activity and as such they were not insured for it.

Brownie Rainbow

'My God' does not mean a Christian god that is loved only by going to church.
ut
Guiding welcomes girls of all faiths, I realise it has a largely Christian ethos, but it explicitly encourages membership by all faiths.

Dd1 is so young I don't think she really has a clue about church services. I don't think she can express an opinion as she has no idea.

She wants to be a Sikh having had a good time at the Temple.

I'm not a militant atheist, it's just that DP and I don't believe it. So it seems a little hypocritical to go.

There aren't any non-church organisations in the area.

Scouting and Guiding require a young person to have faith. We don't care what that faith is, or how they choose to express it, but a belief in "my god" - whatever that may be - is needed.

Some groups are affiliated to a particular church, mosque, temple etc and while they are free to make their particular faith a more prominent feature of their activities, they are not allowed to refuse entry to children who are not of that faith - although most in practice drift towards groups that most accurately reflect their own beliefs. Most Catholic Scout groups have more Catholic Scouts than non-Catholics, for example. But they are not Christian organisations in the sense of the promotion of Christianity/ Evangelism being part of their aims. Scouting is growing in Muslim communities and there are also Sikh, Jewish and Hindu Scout Groups serving their communities.

Scouting and Guiding believe that spirituality - in its loosest sense - is an important dimension of a child's development.

DeborahDeborah - sorry, but you are over simplistic and simply wrong in your assertion.

IMVHO, a telling-off was not really appropriate, particularly for Rainbows - but children can usually understand the concept that going to a children's service once a month is not a hugely onerous task, and shows that they are keeping the "loving my god" part of their promise.