Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think you shouldn't have to be a Christian to be a Rainbow??

53 replies

CommanderDrool · 07/11/2010 20:41

So DD1 has joined Rainbows and after her session last week parents were given a letter to take home which was basically a telling off.

The leader was disappointed that no one came along to the church service last week, and the Rainbows were not represented.

Now I am happy to help out, attend fairs, supportthe Rainbows but I am an atheist, so is DP, and I do not want to go to church.

So am I being unreasonable? Should I just take DD1 to church even though I think it is a load of superstition?

OP posts:
Takver · 07/11/2010 21:05

I think some units are much more religious than others. TBH (as an atheist) I think you either have to go along with it a bit, or alternatively find a different group like the Woodcraft folk which is non-religious.

I would prefer Woodcraft - but my ethics about not driving when avoidable overcome my atheism - so dd goes to Brownies . . .

Personally I also think that attending church occasionally is interesting for a child, in that it is all much less 'mysterious' (and hence maybe likely to be less attractive when older).

Antidote · 07/11/2010 21:06

My understanding was that all the Baden-Powell derived organisations were open to people of all faiths except Athiests, Wiccans and Satanists Hmm

Can't find a link to support this at the mo

Original poster
CommanderDrool · 07/11/2010 21:10

In terms of the promise, my feeling is that DD1 should negotiate this herself, as I did.

I want her to think about God and the big questions, I suppose, but I do not want to attend church and she is too young to go by herself.

But yes someone made a goid point that she may end up feeling upset and guilty if she doesn't attend church as expected. Maybe I should just go through the motions and attend church occasionally to keep the peace?

She loves Rainbows. I would hate to make her leave.

OP posts:
Takver · 07/11/2010 21:11

Are there Woodcraft folk near you? That would be the obvious alternative option.

Clary · 07/11/2010 21:11

Maybe find a group that is not affiliated if you feel that strongly.

Mine are or have all been in Cubs/Beavers/Brownies/Rainbows/Scouts and no-one has asked us to go to church yet, apart from the annual presence at the St George's Day parade and concomitant service.

Or would even that be unacceptable?

Anyway, no Brownie/Rainbow churchery at all, oh except a service this year for the 100th.

I do know a Scout group tho that is more strongly connected to the church (the church we go to as it happens) and they march at Remembrance and other services.

TBH I am not aware that either Guiding or Scouting is only for Christians; certainly the promise talks about "my god" which seems to leave it open to all faiths. Also the Brownie catalogue sells a hijab so that's odd if Muslims are banned Hmm

Personally as a good republican I have more of a problem with the "serve the Queen" bit Wink

fluffles · 07/11/2010 21:12

units that meet in churches or are supported by churches are supposed to 'pay back' by going to occassional 'church parade' or similar.

most girls in units do not turn up, even though most families in the uk nominally call themselves 'christian'. it's a right pain for the leaders.

however, if you are atheist then i would drop a quick note to the leader saying that your daughter will not be attending for reasons of belief.

i am a guider and an atheist (though i support our church in non-faith ways) and i would be happy with a note like that. or one to say that a girl has to attend another religion's service - it's those that call themselves christian but won't come to the church once a year that bother me.

Bettymoody · 07/11/2010 21:12

Lol. Atheists kid joins Christian group. And is pissed off

StewieGriffinsMom · 07/11/2010 21:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Clary · 07/11/2010 21:14

BTW CD if you are talking about a Rainbow presence at a service, I am sure you would not need to go.

I would imagine DD would be one of a number of Rainbows there with a leader?

Certainly I sometimes go to services my lot are at but by no means always (sometimes there just isn't room for parents!)

Lemonsole · 07/11/2010 21:16

Clary - if you have a problem with the Queen (as I do!) you can make the international promise, which is aimed at non-UK nationals, in which you promise, "to do my duty to my god and to my country". Job done.

Clary · 07/11/2010 21:16

Arrrrgh GirlGuiding is not a Christian group!

she's not Christian is she?

Clary · 07/11/2010 21:18

ooh lemonsole I never knew that was there, am certainly in favour of my country!

Mind you the DC may love the Queen for all I know. Perhaps I should put it to them (DS1 due to make promise as Scout any day now...)

fluffles · 07/11/2010 21:18

i am an atheist and a guide guider

guides is not christian

i interpret 'my god' in the absolute loosest possible sense... 'my god' is the universe Grin or something... Confused

Original poster
CommanderDrool · 07/11/2010 21:19

You are you g to think I'm extremely dense but I never considered the Christian aspects of Guiding when I enrolled DD1.

What I did like was the idea that it is a group for girls with an emphasis on fun but also on serving your community, being responsible, caring fir each other.

Maybe I should just suck it up and take her along next time. Sit and smile.

OP posts:
Original poster
CommanderDrool · 07/11/2010 21:23

I also think this church has an ageing congregation and there is considerable pressure to attract families to keep the community going.

I

OP posts:
Lemonsole · 07/11/2010 21:24

Clary - it's deffo there for Scouting, so Guiding should have an equivalent.

CommanderDrool - the duty to my god bit is just taking the ideas of serving your community, being responsible, caring, etc, to a wider dimension. As Fluffles put it, you can see your spirituality as "mother earth" if you really want to.

In its simplest sense, Scouts and Guides believe that it's not "all about Me".

emptyshell · 07/11/2010 21:25

I argued bitterly about this when they changed the wording of the Guide promise. I must have been about 13 years old at the time... guess I started young.

Original poster
CommanderDrool · 07/11/2010 21:31

Yes the community aspects, the respect for each other, that was what attracted me.

Am starting to think I will have to just take DD1 and then talk to her about it afterwards.

Not in a 'there's no God' kinda way, more in a 'what did you think of that?' way.

OP posts:
eviscerateyourmemory · 07/11/2010 21:38

I agree that the 'my god' bit should be interpreted in the loosest possible way.

I also think that it is a little unealistic to expect young children to have reached a considered view on religion, and decided which one (if any) they wish to follow. I know that my children are not at that stage yet, so it would be inappropriate (IMO) to attach any kind of religious label to them.

Bingtata · 07/11/2010 21:40

www.woodcraft.org.uk/

No church requirements!

Bingtata · 07/11/2010 21:41

Although knives and fire are strong possibilities, but not linked to Satanism. Wink

missmoopy · 07/11/2010 21:45

We are not in the least bit religious and border on the heathen but dd loves Rainbows. To her its a chance to run around with some other girls, make stuff and have fun.

pointydog · 07/11/2010 22:07

You don't have to be a christian but rainbows do like to do christiany things. It's not worth getting annoyed about.

BeerTricksPotter · 07/11/2010 22:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

frasersmummy · 07/11/2010 22:20

commander

I am a brownie guider and it is really annoying when you turn up at a church parade and none of your 25 strong unit turn up.

The annoyance will be not be aimed at the non christians members but rather those parents who cant be bothered to get up on a sunday morning to take their dd despite their christian beliefs.

These are the same parents who would be the first to drop their dd off if you were taking them away for the day

Please dont take it personally or a slight on your beliefs.. the last thing any guider wants to do is upset you over your beliefs.

The promise as many have said is to my god and also my country. So you can join the guide association no matter what religion you are and even if you dont think of the uk as home

I am sure if you talk to rainbow leader she will reassure you that as you are atheist she wont expect to see dd in church

Though you might want to send her to thinking day parade which although usually held in a church for practical reasons is a celebration of our founder and is usually not religious