To think the teacher handled this bullying really badly?

[escorchio]

DD2 (8) is in a class with a small number of girls, who have been together since nursery. They roughly divide into three groups. The quiet ones, the loud ones, and the horror. We are fairly new here, and DD2 had slotted in with the quiet girls, but is also friends with the loud ones.

The horror seems to be a really sad little girls. Overweight, not doing too well at school, no real friends, apart from the odd boy or girl who feels sorry for her and makes an effort for a while.

Over time, but increasingly, the horror has been picking on one of DD2 friends. Is has escalated recently to foul mouth insults about her family, and this week, and threat to "punch you in the face".

DD2's friend was frightened, and went to the teacher.

The teacher called both girls out of the classroom, then sent the one being picked on back in to ask the class if anyone who had seen what had happened would please come out, and stand up for her, since the horror had denied all knowledge.

Surely, surely, it is wrong to either display this to the whole class, or ask the children to take sides? DD2 is distraught at being asked to get involved, and her friend mortified at everyone knowing, and having to ask her class for support.

I badly want to tell the teacher she handled this the wrong way, and complain to the head, but I'm not sure what to suggest to them as an alternative.?

Any helpful thoughts?

That is an appalling way to handle an incident like that and yes, I would be inclined to complain.

For a start why send her back in to ask? Surely she would have been able to answer a) whether she thought anyone had witnessed it and b) who, then if it was thought there could be a witness the teacher should have called in this child too.

Also, did they speak to the one making the threat alone first? - I would have thought this should have been the first step.

I understand the need for a witness but it should be the teacher asking quite simply "has anyone seen what happened?"(neutral), rather than asking your DD to find someone to back her up so to speak.

My first thought with things like this is whether an 8-year-old is giving an accurate recall of events. Secondly, assuming that you have heard things correctly escorchio, YADNBU, and I would say something. I'm not sure I would word it as a complaint (although I'd want to), more of a concern about the way things are being done.

That's a really terrible way to handle bullying and can't really be allowed to pass without a word.

When my dd was 8 she was really badly bullied by 2 girls in her class. My dd did not say a word to me. I found out because one of the mums I worked with on nights told me (her ds was in the same class and told her what was going on).

So I went up to the school and spoke to the class teacher. Both bullies where from 'good families'. We obviously where not as we where a forces family and dd had only been at the school for a few months. Bullies parents where school governor and PTA
leader.

Class teacher stood up and said to the whole class 'is anyone having trouble with x and y'.

Five other girls put their hands up.

Oh forgot to say, prior to that I also spoke to the headmaster who told me that x and y came from good families and could not possibly be bullies.

Not sure this is relevent or helpful, but hope your dd's friend is ok.

I suggest you start by asking for an explanation of why it happened that way. It seems very strange that a child was asked to address the class in thexquest for witnesses.

But, as gorionine pointed out, witnesses and both sides of the story are important (there is an important distinction between an accurate account and a complete one). Even if an incident cannot be resolved because it because it ends up "her word against mine", it should be properly investigated. Personally, I don't like the idea of expecting potential witnesses to speak up in front of the whole class, as there may be those who feel too intimidated to do so.

What do you want to happen in future? I take it you'll still have to deal with this teacher. I hope you get a good explanation of what happened from her point of view. You could ask specifically why she did not ask herself for witnesses, and why public disclosure in front of the whole class is more likely to elicit a response than asking the children to come forward privately (uninterrupted breaktimes for teachers are very important, but uninvestigated potential bullying even more so).

If you do not get good answers, then escalate up the management chain.

agedknees I had this too when DS, then 5 was being picked on by a classmate. The child was following him around calling him names including a 'buttclench' .

I spoke to classs teacher to say DS was having a problem with this boy and she said 'oh but he's such a lovely boy'.

My reply of 'well obviously not calling another child a 'buttclench, and surely she thought DS was a lovely boy too?'.

She actually had the good grace to go red and stop to think. She then said he had never mentioned it, and I pointed out as because when he'd had enough and pushed the boy away he had been punished as he admitted it and perhaps they needed to ask him why.

Anyway the teacher did believe me as I had hard facts of incidents and although there had been altercations she realised it wasn't all as it seemed. It got better after that.

Perhaps actually speaking to the teacher will help as often they get only one side of the story, or 2 different versions and can't take the word of one over the other without proof. But if this girl has mentioned it too her mum its hard for school to deny it or brush it under the carpet.

Best of luck.

My first reaction when reading this was, like Onimolap to suggest you find out from the teacher how she saw the incident, and why she acted as she did.

I think this might be a whole-class problem as they seem to have split into groups - the 'quiet' ones and the 'loud' ones, with this little girl left out and not fitting in.

Is it possible that they already have a policy of bullying being a whole class problem, so if you report it you are doing everyone a favour and get praised to the skies for being brave?

How upset was your daughter at being asked to be involved? Why was she anxious - did she think the 'horror' would bully her if she stood up for her friend?

A child referred to as The Horror by an adult. An eight year old child who is overweight and not doing well at school and who has problems with interpersonal relationships. This poor child clearly has significant problems and I hope the school is supporting her in every way they can. The others have been allowed to form distinct groups which exclude her. Not sure who exactly is being bullied here.

A friend of your child's who has a secure group of friends was threatened and teacher handled it badly in you opinion. Not your child, not your problem and you probably don't have all of the facts.

Oh my heart goes out to The Horror and I hope she has a stable home and supportive parents who will look after her and help her.

tbh as it's not your child that was one of the two parties here I would stay out of it.

"This poor child clearly has significant problems"

Many kids have problems, equal to the ones described or larger. It never, ever justifies her bullying another child, and it's not going to make her own life any better is it?

Why is it that we have to look to excuse unacceptable behaviour?

There may be other ways the teacher could have dealt with it, but perhaps if the child insulting others and threatening to punch other children in their faces has suffered any form of embarrassment due to these threats, she may reconsider her actions in future.

Double check that is actually what happened first - then if so it's def not the best way to deal with it so have a conversation but I would be open minded and ask the adult what happened before jumping to conclusions because kids are emotionally involved and can remember things a little differently...

Oh please don't refer to that child as 'The Horror'
:(

IMO children bully, and carry on bullying, precisely because people are too afraid to put them in their place and pull them up on it. If my child was being bullied I'd expect the bully to be told straight by parents and teachers, otherwise I'd do it. How many children have hanged themselves because of bullies?

agreee with onceamai its just horrible to refer to a child in this way, and to me that overclouds your whole post really
yes it seems the bullying was not dealt with well, but 'the horror' thing is what is striking me the most here, its v inappropriate

The horror , yes the teacher handled it badly, mabey you could talk to the teacher about what actually happened. The bullying girl sounds very sad, no self esteem or confidence, that is probably why she is lashing out. To refer to the girl as a horror is not nice, and as bad as the bullying. As an adult you should know better. How would you like it if your dd was described as a horror, I know I would be mortified.

I'd be mortified if my child was a bully! Still who cares if one child is making others lives a misery, so long as nobody offends the poor little thing.

Why should the OP care? She cares about her own child.If my child was bullied I wouldn't care about the bullies problems, my children have problems, everyone does. I'd be shaming the bully in the playground, and would stop them bullying my child any longer. I would also shame the useless parents publicly, and loudly. Then I'd have taught the bully a lesson their own parents couldn't be arsed to do.

It sounds to me as if the horror has long been a victim of bullying by exclusion.Being overweight and struggling with her schoolwork are no reasons to not play with a child-in fact perhaps this is the cause of her overeating and underachieving??
Sounds like she's had a gutful of being treated like crap and lashed out.

It does sound strange.

Ds has suffered from bullying in the past; the school has always been very good at dealing with it (in fact it recently escalated again, with an incident outside of school, but we notified the school so that they can keep a "watching brief"; I am sure it is no coincidence that ds' latest homework includes providing defintions for various words: seagull, castle,...... bully ).

How it works/worked in ds' school is that the depute head (who can, when necessary, be a very scary lady) called in each of the boys (ds and the two boys that were bullying him) in separately. She got them to describe in their own words what was happening - and got them (the other two boys) to admit that what they were doing was bullying. She can be a very scary lady can our depute head; but she is also very good at drawing out of the kids what happened - without putting words into their mouths, she can get them to incriminate themselves.

The key thing is though that both "sides, the bully and the bullied, don't feel threatened by the process - so they therefore give truthful accounts.

She then gets the kids back together so that they can disucss what should happen next.... and then she tells them what will happen next and that she would be watching them.

.... did I say she was a very scary lady?

I know bullying in any form is unacceptable and I would be on the side of my child, but calling a child being called a horror by an adult is not either. This particular girl does not sound intentionally nasty, she needs help too and her doing this is her way of crying for help.

I would go straight to the headteacher if I was the victims parent. This is absolutely unnacceptable behaviour from this girl, am surprised it's been allowed to carry on for this long TBH. It is not up to you to be coming up with alternatives, it is their job, they are trained to deal with situations like this

Different if the girl is lashing out due to being bullied herself. Some children come across lovely in front of adults, and bully on the sly, making an angry victim look in the wrong. The horror thing could just be a way of letting off steam. As long as the child in question doesn't hear it.

Sorry if any of you think I'm wrong to refer to a child as a horror. I am regularly horrified by the way she comes out of school shouting swearing and punching other children in her class and am truly horrified by her. I have seen her destroy plants in gardens she passes on the way home and have witnessed by DD being on the receiving end of her tirades. Since I have no intention of giving her actual name, calling her a horror, seemed reasonable - at the time.

I am sure she struggles to find friends, but not wanting to be friends with someone who shouts abuse in your face and threatens you with physical violence is not bullying them. It is simply not wanting to be friends with them.

To those who said stay out because my DD was not involved - she involved, since she was asked by the teacher via her friend if she would be a witness or take sides. THAT is what I have a problem with.

What I don't know, and the reason I was looking for a sounding board was, what to say to the teacher. Thanks to those who suggested I simply asked her point of view what happened. This I will do, and if I am not satisfied with what I hear from her, I will take it further.

It is the way this was handled in class I have a problem with, not the children.