To think that these parents are a bit mad?

[Mummy2Bookie]

I know a family who have 3 dc's. All the children have strange embarrassing names, including one name that is a favourite for pet cats!
The children are not vaccinated and are very strict vegetarians. No meat, no fish no gelatine. But it doesn't end there. They are Also not allowed any raisins, sweets, chocolate etc basically anything with sugar.
I once saw ds1 hiding in a corner eating a jelly baby at nursery. Their ds1 also will not eat veg, so he is basically a vegetarian who will not eat veg and so eats nothing really. His parents will not alter his diet.
The youngest ds has seizures that the doc says he will grow out of. Doc says it may be a nutrition deficiency, but mum and dad will not alter his diet either. Ds1 has speech difficulties, but mum and dad are not worried.
At nursery ds1 and ds2 cannot have yogurt with the other children, only melon and apple.
Ds1 has told me that mum eats crisps and dad eats chocolate but the dc's have none.
It's none of my business but am I being unreadable to think this is a bit mad?

Agree with Mummy2 also.

Thank you didgeridoo and baileysismyfriend. Much appreciated

Again, I wonder how you KNOW these things about the family....

I can tell you now that my ds will run and hide in his tent to eat something he shouldn't have - by that I don't mean meat etc - just if he's snatched his sisters lunch or his current favourite thing is to grab the shopping from the bags before I've unpacked it! :)

They do seem to have complete confidence in their choices. If I had evidence that my diet choices were harmful to my DC I'd be flexible. But I do question the link between his diet and the seizures to be honest.

Raisins are particularly bad for teeth, so it does make sense to not let children have them.

A few people on here have said that it would be a concern if any child didn't eat veg? Would it? Is there something in veg that is very different to what is in fruit? Couldn't you get the nutrition generally found in fruit and veg from eating a wide variety of fruit?

I don't agree it's necessarily bad to let children have raisins when their diet is otherwise very restricted. Yes, they can be bad for teeth if grazed on throughout the day but have good nutritional value if eaten sensibly. I don't think it's a good idea to remove entire food groups from children's diets unless it's because they're allergic or on sound medical advice & that goes for meat as much as anything else. As I've said previously, it's fine for adults who are mature enough to make their own decisions but I think children should be given as varied a diet as possible. It's just my opinion of course although the way some of the veggies have reacted you'd swear I had the power to make it law!

(AIBU for not knowing that raisins are so bad for you? - What about sultanas?)

Didgeridoo, meat is not a food group.

Well whatever, iggnite. It's still an important part of our diet.

you gossipy ole fishwife.min yer own business,not theirs

I don't understand why it's an 'important' part of our diet. Genuine question here. If all your needs can be covered by other foods why do you object to 'removing' it from a diet?
I consider it just not adding it, rather than removing it, iyswim. After all, children aren't born eating steaks so you're not taking anything away.

Agree with backward, why are raisins bad for you? Didn't know that.

I have googled and found this:
www.associatedcontent.com/article/1618739/5_worst_foods_for_your_teeth.html?cat=5

But also this:

www.colgate.com/app/Colgate/US/OC/Information/ADA/Article_2005_06_ADARaisins.cvsp

Link number one seems to be rather lacking in anything scientific: 'When you put this in your mouth, all the sugar sticks to your teeth, and everyone knows that's not good.'

Link number two seems to be a bit better, apparently linked to the American Dental Association and uses fancy words : 'Phytochemicals in raisins may benefit oral health by fighting bacteria that cause cavities and gum disease'.

Now I don't know what to think! The great raisin debate...

Tabitha - I bet she's a Tabitha. I like that name.

Well, now I'm even more confused, thanks Skyrg

DS loves raisins... sigh

Aha! Something useful:
www.xomba.com/eating_raisins_bad_your_teeth
General message seems to be that unsweetened are fine, just avoid the ones with added sugar.

Thank goodness for Google for our urgent after midnight health questions

But how do you know these seizures are caused by a nutritional deficiency?

It's an important part of our diet because meat provides us with valuable nutrients,Skyrg. A family I know who are vegetarians told me they take supplements precisely because there are nutrients in meat that a veggie diet cannot provide. I can't remember exactly which nutrients they were, I didn't commit them to memory as it doesn't affect me being a meat eater. Mother Nature designed us to eat meat & I don't think we should brush that fact aside easily. Vegetables are obviously just as important which is why I think children should be given as much variety as possible.

But meat doesn't provide us with anything that plants can't, didgeridoo. I'm not saying meat is bad, I'm saying it's unnecessary.
If they did say that, they are wrong. There is nothing in meat that a vegetarian diet can't provide. You have to eat varied food, ofc, but then so do meat eaters.

As far as I know, there is debate about us being intended to eat meat. Certainly we can, but we're not necessarily 'designed' for it. Afaik it's our teeth, intestines etc which are more similar to herbivores.

Ah technically meat provides us with B12 (which the cows get by eating grass, which have the right bacteria(?) on it) Since we don't eat mud anymore (veggies are too clean), most people get B12 this from meat. (I think it's B12, it's def one of the B's)

However, most meat people only get their vitamins/minerals from things like fortified cereal etc. (not because their diet is so grand).

As it's recongised that B12 is a vitamin that vegans might not get enough off, then it is commonly added to things like soya milk and other products vegans/veggies commonly consume.

I don't have soya milk or cereal, but I do consume my body weight enough marmite to counter this. (which handily has loads of other goodies like folic acid etc.)

You're quite right ClimberChick, I should have said 'that a vegetarian diet can't' rather than 'that plant's can't'.

It is B12, and it's available from dairy and eggs, so vegetarians are fine (and it's vegetarians I'm supporting here). Vegans do need to get it from fortified foods or grubby veg .
However, the body can store B12, and you need a tiny amount of it in your lifetime, so afaik it's perfectly possible to obtain easily through various sources.

I think B12 deficiency is quite rare, even among vegans (not sure about that though), and I thought it was usually caused by people not being able to absorb it, rather than a lack in the diet.

As far as I know Skyrg, there's a "debate" about us putting a man on the moon. Everything under the stars will be "debated" at some point. I think the evidence is that we're designed to eat meat. Our incisors are designed precisely for tearing meat. I don't doubt, though, that our teeth have evolved to become more like herbivores as we probably do eat substantially more fruit & veg than our early ancestors. Our wisdom teeth becoming unnecessary is probably part of this. Any dentists out there!?

I, like the OP, have my concerns about the health of the dc's of the veggie family I mentioned earlier. They have 2 dd's who are the sickliest children I have ever met, bar none. I'm not saying their diet is definitely to blame but if I were their parent I would be concerned enough to question whether their diet should be restricted in any way. Both girls are very small for their age despite both parents being of above average size. The youngest dd was so ill she missed most of the school year last year. Tbh, I'm surprised the school hasn't made her repeat the year. This isn't hearsay, we know this family very well & visited their dd2 when she was in hospital (for 4 months!!) I don't want to go into more detail as mum might be an MN'er.

Anecdotal evidence can work to support anything, though (ever read a bf/ff thread? )
My DS is head and shoulders taller than his peer group. Now I don't put that down to his vegetarian diet, but I bet if he was small and sickly someone else would.

Anecdotal evidence can work to support anything, though (ever read a bf/ff thread? )
My DS is head and shoulders taller than his peer group. Now I don't put that down to his vegetarian diet, but I bet if he was small and sickly someone else would.

Yes, but BOTH children, iggnite? Wouldn't you at least be concerned about their diet!?

Just because there are some bizarre conspiracy theories doesn't mean you should ignore all debate.

The evidence is not necessarily that we were designed to eat meat, we were initially vegetarian. There is debate, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. Just google 'are we omnivores' or something.
We have been eating meat for a long time, yes, but that doesn't mean that's what 'mother nature intended'. Also the fact we can easily survive without meat rather suggests that nature intended we could.

We don't appear to be harmed by eating meat, but that doesn't mean we're designed to eat it. As far as I know apes are similar, can eat meat but usually don't.

I'm sorry you have concerns about the family, but I don't believe that it is truly relevant to our discussion. I am saying, generally, a vegetarian diet is in no way harmful and may actually be healthier than a diet including meat.
I agree with you that a poor vegetarian diet is damaging, of course it is. Any poor diet is damaging. I know unhealthy people who only eat burgers and chips, of course it's going to be unhealthy. You are saying there are unhealthy vegetarians. Yes, there are. There are also unhealthy meat eaters.

If those children have been into hospital, surely the doctors have advised parents on diet? You say that you would question whether their diet should be restricted, but if they're eating a wide range of foods and getting the right food groups, it's not restricted.

Also, in the case of that family, surely the parents are vegetarian too? So if they were having a poor diet it would affect their health as well?
There are many reasons why siblings would be affected by the same illnesses.