to wonder why more people don't grow a backbone?

[frgr]

i've been reading around on here for a while and spotted a couple of threads which have made me wonder (not intended in a nasty way) why more people don't stick up for themselves when it comes to dealing with unreasonable people

example: the thread from the lady 2 weeks after first baby being dragged around shops and having to entertain her MIL including meals, when all she wants to do is lay in bed and cuddle her little one?

another example: the thread from the lady explaining that she's due in early December and her in-laws are moaning about the fact that she can't commit to a Christmas Day plan (baby might be late, might need a cs, her H can't drive).

i constantly read threads on here from people who feel "duty bound" to do XYZ, or are guilt-ridden into doing something. sad to say but it's usually family!

WTF?

Am I the only person sitting here screaming "stick up for yourself damnit!" AIBU to want to show these ladies that they don't need to be a doormat, they can decline the request for a favour and JUST SAY NO! once in a while. they would be happier for it!

i know - my in-laws were quite unreasonable when i first met them. having had to stick up for myself, the relationship isn't going to ever be too warm,but i sense they have a little bit more respect for me these days after i was having a hard time at work, my own father was ill, 2 years ago, and i just snapped and started to say "i need to think about ME for once"...

no i won't car share with you because i like the relaxing quiet time on the way to work... no i won't accept your parcels during the day if the same neighbour gives me suspicious looks when i explain one hasn't been delivered to me EVEN if there's a card saying it's across the road...

so! AIBU to think we should all have a "sod it, what do i want" attitude sometimes? it has to balance out, but i mean, we would all be happier

do you have experience of a really toxic long-term relationship?

what you are saying looks great on paper but really isn't much help in reality - "stick up for yourself" is very simplistic and much easier said than done.

do you have experience of a really toxic long-term relationship?

i'm not sure if i could consider the FIL toxic, but he's certainly not a positive influence - just something to endured.

you're right, i know - it's easier said than done :)

i just wish that some of the (very reasonable) ladies on her wouldn't have to be forced to deal with some crap that their supposedly loving family tries to get away with and it's such an empowering feeling, if you can muster it, to change the dynamics of a relationship where you feel constantly put upon.. into one where you don't. like a breathe of fresh air.

maybe there should be a "how to deal with toxic family" forum on MN!

I read both of those threads and came to the conclusion that I must be a really bolshy caah.

I would not bend on two things - new baby and Christmas.

New Baby: Look at me! I have just created a miracle! All bow down before me and do my house-work!

Christmas: I have children. Christmas is about children. I will make Christmas perfect for my children. You will fit in with me.

YANBU but I think sticking up for yourself comes a lot easier with time. I'm in my forties and the older I get, frankly, the less I worry about hurting other people's feelings and the less tolerant I am of unreasonable behaviour in others. Back in my twenties I'd have been a lot more reticent & far too worried about upsetting anyone or anyone thinking badly of me. Some people are assertive from birth, some never get there, others will acquire it over time with a little encouragement. :)

I was brought up to consider others and to know the world didn't revolve around me so when I had my first child I found it really hard to say NO to pil's looonnnngggg visit especially as dh seemed to side with them. I was miserable and when I showed it my own mother told me off for being moody - she's one these 'what would the neighbours say/martyr types. I then decided to grow a back bone and tell the world to fuck off including dh if he couldn't see my point and respect my feelings. Things have improved but boy did I feel guilty and selfish for putting myself and my babies first.

It took me a long while to recognise that I don't have to pander to social or familial obligations just to be polite, espeically when it caused me no end of stress.

Nobody taught me that, it was a conclusion I had to come to on my own.

When it comes to family the pressure to 'do as your told' can be enormous.

Usually they've known you since you were small, and it can be very difficult to get away from the cloying parent/child situation to one where it's adult/adult.

With PIL there are also certain expectations about the relationship and you're expected to conform, and unless you don't mind causing family arguments, a lot of people just give in for the peace.

As each situation is so different there's no easy answer.

I still love TanteRose's "so many problems, so many doormats....." on this thread

With very toxic parents it is a slow process they are robbed of confidance and their backbone. I had a very toxic MIL I am extremily feisty and always stand up but I didn't even notice I had stopped.

When I finally stood up to her I felt all my strength return and I could not believe how much of a doormat I had been.

YANBU - but some people need to learn this stuff, and I guess by posting here on MN it is a way of helping them to learn there are alternatives to being walked over, or even awakening to the fact they let themselves be doormats.

On these type of threads I'll often post, "just say NO" or similar & scratch my head in wonderment. But then I'm in my 40's - still I think I would have been very similar in my 20's & 30's too!

Raising my cuppa tea to all the bolshy Mama's out there!!!! (FFS please don't turn into steamrolling MIL's please!! )

foundwanting you summed things up beautifully

YANBU. I often think the same thing, and I did with those threads too.

However I am not great at sticking up for myself and I will do anything to avoid to confrontation.

I'm sure people thought the same about my thread about my pregnant belly being groped by MIL. It was a unanimous YANBU!

I am getting better though and when this DC is born, I have already told DH that people will wait until we are ready and not hound us like last time. I'm going to put myself and baby first unlike last time where I felt obligated to sit and make small talk with irritating relatives when I wanted to curl into a ball and cry.

I think with PIL it helps no end when your DP/DH acknowledges that how they're acting is not on and speaks up.

It must be awful if you feel isolated and alone against what can seem as a whole family, surely you'd feel it was you and not them, which is when MN is good at getting some perspective(ish).

:o Oh dear :o

To many would rather witter on then confront the issues.

That is not to put yourself in the way of harm by confronting the local yobs but to call the Police if they are going over the top and causing a nuisance. To confront the feline shit machine owning neighbours and asking then to keep THEIR CATS out of YOUR GARDEN.

What was that newwave? You've got a problem with yobs shitting in your garden and you want cat owners to call the police?

AZz

To confront the feline shit machine owning neighbours and asking then to keep THEIR CATS out of YOUR GARDEN.

Seems reasonable coherent.

Cat lovers are inherently unreasonable....

YANBU, but if you have been brought up to consider other people before yourself, and by parents who very rarely praise you, but always say "you should have done better" and find fault with everything it's really difficult to have that confidence.

I'm now in my 40s, so you think I would have learned to stand up for myself by now, but I can honestly say I find it really hard.

I hate any sort of confrontation, and find myself shaking if I think anything confrontational is about to happen. I'm also afraid of most people. When I was a child, my Mum shouted a lot. I was always afraid of her, and of anyone in authority (teachers etc) even if they were nice people. I always lived in fear of "doing the wrong thing" and still do.

Hope you won't feel patronised, Bats, but that just made me want to give you a hug. :)

I'm probably a bit too assertive for my own good.

Value your non-bolshieness. You're probably a lovely person. :)

Sorry newwave, I was just pulling your leg to see whether cat haters are humourless

I should have put a or in.

AZz, i dont hate all cats just the ones who shit in my garden, you know, the dead ones :o

Growing a backbone has to be a learned behaviour for some people. Brief history of my life: I was treated like crap by parents and ex-p, and it's taken ages to learn to stick up for myself.

SoMuchToBats' comment about being scared of people is so true; it takes ages to grow a thick skin and not give a shit.

Sometimes it is easier said than done. I was brought up to believe that everyone else's rights came before mine.

On top of that I had an abusive control freak of a husband. When you have had years of being 'put in your place' every time you remotely stand up for yourself then the fight effectively gets knocked out of you.

Now I have started to take small steps towards standing up for myself and I get dragged through the courts as punishment. When the courts appear to back the other party up against you at every turn then it takes so much energy to keep going that you don't have the energy for any other 'fight'

Lots of Mn'ers come from abused or toxic childhoods. mnay people have had abusive relationships with xp's or xh's.
was all a shock to me when I first came to MN.
But, I assume it is a long long road to recovery to learn to just 'stand up for yourself'. Its not that simple. You have to undo years of hurt. And build self confidence, where there is none.
I presume that this is almost impossible, or atleast very hard. Long long road to recovery.

The problem is, although lots of people are in toxic relationships/relationships with a bad dynamic, that doesn't mean they are always in the right and the other person is always in the wrong.

So sometimes people will have posted 9 threads where everyone says 'oh, just stand up for yourself', and the 10th, the response will be 'no, you're going too far and being really bossy/uncompromising now'.

So it is helpful to have the input.

I live in dread of upsetting others or not making them happy. I don't think it's a lack of backbone exactly - I just feel really responsible for other people. I also think we need different types in society.

It's definitely harder than it looks to 'just stand up for yourself' if you have been conditioned into not doing this (abusive relationship/toxic childhood etc) - been there, bought the t-shirt, worn it, washed it, worn it again

Tell you what makes me so sad tho, women putting up with the most godawful treatment because somewhere along the line they've absorbed the message that it's better to be in any relationship than none at all.