stopped my daughters dad from seeing her

[jaxx26]

hi, im new to this and wanted some advice, my daughter has just turned 4, she used to go and see her father on the weekends, one day i needed to go to the shop and told my daughter to get dressed, she was playing a game at the time and asked if she could stay at home, i told her no and she asked why, i explained coz she was to young, she then told me but daddy lets me stay home alone when he goes to the shop. I had a convo with him about it and he seems to think that it was ok for him to do this (this must have happened when she was 3) i have now stopped him from having her. she has however just started full time school and i told the school what had happened and said that i did not want her father to pick her up after school, i was told that they could not in a legal sence stop him..... I need to know what i should do now should i go and report it? or should i just leave it? (i have never stopped him from seeing her b4 he even used to have her over night untill he moved in with a friend and felt himself that it was unsafe for her to stay there over night) friends and even his own son have told me to report him as its serious neglect?

ok how far away is the shop? it could be right next door for all we know

buying beer isnt a crime, neither is drinking it in front of dc, unless he gets paralytic then why is this an issue?

YABU to stop him seeing her, if you think she is in real danger while she is with him then you need to report him, but it doesnt sound like she was in any real danger to me

would people here be so up in arms if he had left her to buy carrots? no, its just because its beer. It dousnt make him and alcoholic unless you know something we dont etc

To clarify wrt parental responsibility. Since 1st December 2003, any father who registers the birth jointly with the mother has parental responsibility for the child.

So, for the op, if your daughter's father is on her birth certificate then he has parental responsibility. Which means he has equal rights and repsonsibilities with yourself, unless a court has ordered otherwise. It's very unlikely that a court would order that your daughter would have no contact with her father.

The school are correct in what they are saying, which is that as he has parental responsibility they have no right to prevent him from collecting his child from school. In the same way that they couldnt stop you collecting her. However,you could request that they inform you were this ever to happen.

WRT to stopping him seeing her I do think YABU, both from a legal point of view and the best thing for your child. There are lots of ways that this could be worked out as you have concerns regarding her welfare in his care. He could visit at your home or your daughter visiting him could be supervised by a member of his family. Alternatively you could arrange through a solicitor or social services that he has contact at a Contact Centre.

I would want more information about how long he left your daughter and where he went before agreeing whole heartedly that he was neglectful. As another post states, there is a big difference between leaving a child asleep in bed to pop to the shop next door and leaving them awake for an hour to go into town. This is partly why the law has never been made more specific, so as to allow for a parents own judgement.

I'm that so many here are saying that it's fine for a 3yo to be left at home alone! If a mum posted an AIBU to leave my DD home alone everyone would say that it's not appropriate - I've even seen posters here saying they wouldn't leave their 10yo alone.

I would definitely report it. As another poster said, it's very difficult to get a court to order no contact. You will have to build up as much evidence as you can to show that the father is irresponsible and causing damage to the child. This action alone can't show that, but I'm sure it's only the tip of the iceberg. I would also get in touch with a good family solicitor as you will need to fight for what is best for your child.

The fact that it was beer that he was buying just shows what a selfish person he is - hardly an essential purchase that he couldn't have planned for or waited for another time. Has he shown any other signs of alcohol dependency in the past?

I second Dishoftheday.
I find am [shocked] that there isn't an uproar about leaving a 3yr old unattended.
Even more shocking that dad doesn't think there's anything wrong with doing so.
Totally irresponsible.

OP - have you actually stopped your DD's dad from seeing her at all? Or just from having her at his?

If the former, then YABU - but if the latter I can see your point.

However, you really should try and make it possible for him to see her, just not leave her in his sole charge until he grows up and understands the potential dangers of leaving small children alone.

"as hes doing nothing wrong"
??????????????????

he went to the shop to buy beer, leaving a very young child home alone and thinks it's ok

you can dress it up however you like but this is wrong wrong wrong and OP has a right to be really upset about it.

unless ofcourse you think the Macaulay Culkin films are Real Life...

Do you really want to stop her from seeing her dad completely? or are you just saying that you don't want him to have unupervised access. Please I know he had behaved in totally irresponsible way and the drinking is clearly a concern ( I grew up with an alcoholic mother so I know what I am talking about) but whilst he may not be trusted to look after her on his own he has a right to see her and her him.

YABU means 'you are being unreasonable', OP.

what kind of parent leaves a three year old at home alone during the day? a neglectful one! It is clearly a risky situation, and not one I would have put my own three year olds in.

Oh FFS on what planet is a child's right to have a relationship with her dad, more important than her right to be properly looked after and not put in danger?

YANBU to stop unsupervised access. All those people who are saying that they just need to sit down and talk about it, the OP HAS tried to talk to him about it, and he hasn't acknowledged that he's doing the wrong thing and promised not to do it again. So she has no choice - she cannot send her child to a place where she knows for certain, that the person who is supposed to be looking after the child, will not in fact be looking after her.

What I would agree with, is that it is advisable to try and facilitate contact, but until this twat realises that contact with his DD means actually looking after her, that contact MUST NOT be unsupervised, in case it ends up in A&E or worse. Most accidents in this country take place in the home. This kid is 4, not 8. I would certainly report him so that it is no record, and I would suggest supervised contact and mediation for now. That way, you are facilitating your DD's relationship with her father and protecting her at the same time.

I can't believe the excuses people make for neglectful fathers. If this was a mother, she'd be hung out to dry.

The law can state what it damn well likes but the fact is that it is in the OP's opinion (and mine as well, FWIW) that the father is putting her child at risk and thus not fit to care for her until that changes.

As others have said, who would not say it's unreasonable if a mother posted here asking if it was okay to leave her 3 or 4 yo in order to go to the shop? Very few!

If the OP has the courage for it she can firstly arm herself with the law and then ignore it, refusing to allow her ex to have unsupervised access to the little girl until she is satisfied that he can act in a responsible manner. If the father wants to argue, let him apply to the courts for access. Then, at his expense and instigation, the OP can explain all and will most probably get reasonable, supervised access. The chances are that a prick who leaves his child unattended and only sees her four hours every 2 weeks and who can go months without bothering at all won't make the effort to apply to the courts anyway.

WRT the school, all I can say is that it's a pity you even told them that your ex is on your DDs birth certificate. When my children were younger and I had to fill in school forms asking for the names of the parents, only my own went in there and when asked who had PR, I stated it was just me. I was never questioned but it ensured that had my ex made any attempt to take my girls from school he would have been prevented from doing so.

A child's right to SAFETY far, far outweighs her right to see anyone, parent or otherwise imho.

All the above should only be considered if the parent with care is fully aware of the law, possible repercussions and is willing to stand her ground and take any associated risks of legal action of course.

I stand corrected Altinkum. Mine were born before that, teenagers now, which must be why I was able to "swing it".

jax26, this section is called "am I being unreasonable" so you'll get people saying YABU (you are being unreasonable) or YANBU (you are not being unreasonable).

Mumsnet is a place where people speak their mind anyway, but the AIBU (am I being unreasonable) section is a place where many people come for a fight really don't pull their punches.

The good thing about posting here is you'll often get lots of responses, and the frankness can be a good thing.

But if you want a more measured response - or don't feel in the mood for being attacked challenged then it can be better to post in other sections (lie relationships, or law as someone else suggested).

If you want to work out what on earth everyone is o about this glossary should help.

HTH (hope that helps!)

And welcome to mumsnet

Was he irresponsible? Yes. Was it irresponsible in such a way that you would withdraw contact entirely? No. That was a complete overreaction. Supervised contact until he can be trusted again would've been the right thing to do.

I stand by the above unless there are other circumstances, such as a pattern of horribly irresponsible and risky behaviour by your ex (not more of the above (unless lots of it), I mean neglect or putting a child in harms way, etc). In that case, I would've reported already and taken steps to ensure the school will stand by my request.

Yes this would be better in Lone Parents, Relationships or Legal OP. This section's a bit of a free-for-all.

But it's here now and I hope you've found the advice helpful.

i agree that the father was irresponsible, but withdrawing contact entirely - sounds like an over-reaction.

also the school thing sounds like a red herring to me, why wouldn't the OP or trusted alternative be there to collect the child herself? It's not the school's responsibility to keep the child away from a parent unless there's a legal agreement that he is not permitted access to her.

could you enlist the help of a friend or relative to talk to him or write to him to explain why you're upset?

I completely agree that it is not right to leave a child of that age alone. However, I really don't think that this is a reason to stop her seeing her father altogether. Lay down the law about what you expect of him as a parent - but the last thing you want is your daughter turning to you in 10 years time and blaming you for the breakdown of the relationship with her father. No matter how shitty he is you should try not to use access as a bargaining chip. My parents played emotional tug of war with my brother and I when we were not much older and I'm still seeing a therapist!!

I wouldn't leave my 3yo DD home alone and would be extremely upset if anyone else did that. It just seems stupid to me to leave a child alone because you're so desperate for beer. YANBU for being angry about that.

However, I do feel your DD needs to see her dad.

My parents split up when I was very young-around 3-and I spent every weekend with my dad. Or I should say I spent every weekend in the pub with my dad. In some ways it was horrible, but it would have been worse to not have seen him at all.