To park in parent and child spaces if there are no disabled ones free?

[immortalbeloved]

I know I know, I'm sorry for another P&C space thread

I'm really really not trying to start the whole debate up again, I know it's been done to death

Genuine question though, AIBU to park in one if there isn't a disabled space free? Normally I use a disbled space (I have a blue badge) or sometimes P&C space if I've got one or more of the children with me. But today I needed to go somewhere and didn't have any children with me, when I got there the only space free close enough for me was P&C so I used it.

But I was given several dirty looks by mums with toddlers and one was going to approach me to 'set me straight' but her friend stopped her

So was I really out of order? Or is it an ok thing to do?

I like a particularly wide space for my large 4x4 and cos I is fat

Agree - but that's not what my post was about. Posie's knob of a friend is a case in point - would you rather than there were no questions asked in that case, or would you rather that he was challenged to enable people like my FIL or your DH to park where they need to?

I don't think anyone has suggested that disabled people can 'do no wrong'. That is a completely irrelevant point. They can be as unpleasant and selfish as they like and still have an absolute legal and moral right to utilize accessible parking, over and above able bodied people, with or without children.

There isn't a hierarchy of entitlement. A nice disabled person doesn't have any greater right to get their shopping done than a grumpy disablednperson.

I think I am nice. Does that entitle me to insist that a less nice mum vacate the p &c space for me? Maybe we should have badges to prove how nice we are. Come on. Who thinks they are nicer than me? Come and have a go if you think you're nice enough!

I am definitely nicer than you

If someone is concerned that an individual is not disabled, they should speak to a traffic warden, police officer or store manager. They should not go around challenging people simply because they have a bizarre prejudice that people who have no outward sign of a disability are not disabled. Most disabled people are not in a wheel chair/on crutches.

To go around challenging people as fraudulent on this basis is similar to asking random non-British speaking people if they are illegal immigrants. A very tiny proportion of them will be and you are simply discriminating against all the others.

I would rather not challenge 100 visible 'able' bodied people than one who was disabled about using a disabled bay.

Thruaglass if you are struggling to keep your car load of kids safe may I suggest parenting classes, or reins?

P&Cs are there to get the parenting pound into the supermarket. They appeal to the sort of parents who believe they need special treatment because they have managed to breed.

If you cant get over a car park with a toddler and baby you need to come up with strategies for coping.

You're assuming there is a traffic warden etc present. I'm quite happy to support anyone who wishes to politely ask someone if they really need the disabled space, if it seems like an abuse of the space. If you don't wish to, then that's absolutely fine, and your choice.

Anyway, I'm now too busy fighting Kungfu (who shall be beaten)

I would never ask someone if they needed the disabled space.
one thing I have learned on mn is that not all disabilities are visible.

There you go you see mrsdeveerie - you are suggesting that by default, anyone who appreciates the little bit of extra ease the P&C space brings to the supermarket trip is somehow a worse person than you.

They appeal to the sort of parents who believe they need special treatment because they have managed to breed.

There's never any excuse for using parents and breed in the same sentence, truly vulgar.

there is a big difference between appreciating the need for a P&C space and believing it is your god given right to have one.

My gran has a blue badge and I have 2 children under 3. She definitly definitly needs the space more than me with my kids - there is just no comparison, it is so much more difficult for her to get from A to B. I am shocked and saddened that so many people don't think that a disabled person should take priority over an able bodied parent.

It shows a lack of empathy - I think people convince themselves there need is greater to make there life easier.

"They should not go around challenging people simply because they have a bizarre prejudice that people who have no outward sign of a disability are not disabled. Most disabled people are not in a wheel chair/on crutches."

I agree. Having been one of those people challenged. Because you know being disabled doesn't suck quite enough, without being questioned by random strangers.

I have been in the postion you describe Maisie (with DH). I never respond to the adult - I speak to their child instead, about what discrimination is.

Surely every parent with a car load of small children would appreciate parking nearer the entrance and in a wider space. I do- I don't think I need special treatment though and if there was none available I park elsewhere (not in the disabled spots though) as near as possible.

My moan was that although the initial challenge whilst being a little presumptious was possibly valid, the second comment on having seen my mother walk (well wobble) with her stick was that as she wasn't in a wheelchair she couldn't be that disabled.

My mother refuses to use a wheelchair as she feels it makes her more obviously disabled, marks her out if you like and she is a proud woman and very distressed at her inability to get about as she used to. So many of her abilities have been taken away by illness, refusing to get in a wheelchair is something she can do and I uphold her right to refuse for as long as she can.

Yes, as a parent it's nice to have a good wide space for the buggy/chair etc, but it does not affect your ability to get to the shops. Inconvenient, and harder work maybe but it doesn't actually stop you. Yes, I've been in parking places when my dc's were small that I've had to squeeze into and out of - and on one occasion over the back seat -but that's life sometimes. I have NEVER used a disabled space unnecessarily and wouldn't consider it and I think shame on perfectly well and able people who do, with or without children.

Oh crap. I had to go and do some work, allowing Maisie to get ahead on points.

Nice nice nice nicety nice. take that!

Posie, your friend's father can actually be prosecuted and lose his badge for improper use if he were found out. I would possibly gently suggest that your friend's father might prefer to take his badge out of the car when he's not in it so that he doesn't lose it and therefore his independence.

One of the best responses I've got up my sleeve for the 'you don't look disabled' thing is 'well you don't look ignorant, but just shows appearances can be deceptive hey?'
This given to me by a MNetter when I posted about using a wheelchair at Alton Towers as I couldn't do it otherwise though I'm not usually a wheelchair user (the day went great in the end btw and didn't get challenged by anyone, happily, and the staff were utterly brilliant :))

Agree with pps who have commented on Maisie's contention that people who don't look disabled should sometimes be questioned. However polite that question is it can still be devastating. You are struggling as it is with enough without people questioning if you have the right to be there. Benefit of the doubt, anyone? Very few can abuse the system surely, it's very difficult to get a blue badge and you need medical evidence etc.

I hate this whole culture of slagging off those who 'don't look disabled'. My local rag the other day printed a letter which said 'I saw someone get out of their car, parked in a disabled space and with a blue badge, then WALK to the other side of the car park.' Well shock horror!! Some of us walk!!!

OP - YANBU.

Sorry that should say 'walk to the other side of the toilet block', not sure why said car park.

You can receive a fine for parking in a disabled space when you are not disabled, but not for parking in a mother and baby space without a baby. You take priority.

YANBU

Oh dont be so silly plain. That is not what I have said at all. Thats like saying Thru's post implied that no one cared as much about their child's safety as she does.

I have yet to have to turn round and abandon my shopping trip because there are no P&C places.

I wish I could say the same when I took my DD out. One of the very few days she was able to go out and there were not spaces near enough.

What one thinks is vulgar is relative Posie. You think using parent and breed in the same sentance is vulgar, I think pushing yourself forwards at the expense of others is vulgar.

Potato, Po tar to

Plainjanesuperbrain - do you think that Thru is right to think that her need for the wider space trumps that of a disabled user, so she should get priority for using the P&C spaces, even if there are no disabled spaces left, and a disabled driver needs to use the P&C space?

My earlier post should have said:

".....TAGD - you can park elsewhere in the carpark and manage to get your children safely to the store - it is not impossible. Whereas someone disabled might well have to turn round and go home if they couldn't park in a P&C space if no disabled parking space is available - for example, if they couldn't walk far enough to walk from an ordinary space further away, or if they needed the space alongside the car to get a wheelchair out.

For them, it is a NEED, whereas for you, it is something that is a great help, but not a necessity. Raise your eyes from your own life, and try to see that other people have serious, long term problems that make walking across a carpark with 4 children pale into insignificance!...."

I didn't intend to imply that Thru was saying she'd use the disabled spaces. I do, however, feel that she is wrong in her sense of entitlement - that she should get priority for the P&C space over a disabled driver who potentially couldn't park elsewhere and still get to the shop - and would therefore have to abandon their shopping trip and go home - whereas she ought to be perfectly capable of walking her four children from the further reaches of the car park, so could still go shopping if the P&C space was not available for her.

I assume that if she gets to the supermarket/other car park, and finds all the P&C spaces full, that she doesn't just turn round and go home - so she can, she just doesn't want to.

No- I don't think Thru is right to say a disabled person shouldn't use a P&C space. The OP is welcome to park there in my eyes.

I do however, think she is just playing devils advocate as it would be a relatively rare occurrence for all the disabled spaces to be taken while the PC spaces are free so it is all theoretical anyway.