to think that many SAHMs/part-time workers would have chosen differently with the benefit of hindsight?

[working9while5]

Just a thought, have come across this on another forum and wondering how it applies to me.

I have just the one dc. Originally, I was desperate to be a SAHM but grudgingly decided to go back p/t but cut it back to the bare, bare minimum (2 days a week).

A few months down the line, if I am honest I am wondering how much my decision was framed by having a small, non-mobile baby and enjoying lunches with friends and Summer walks. As the hormones/baby shock wears off, I do wonder why I am not going back to work 3 or even 4 days.. and if my thinking was very short-term.

Unfortunately, I effectively "gave away" the bulk of my permanent, public sector job and there is a job freeze in my area. So, my (hormonally-driven? rose-tinted?) decision, while not final, is not so easy to go back on. I am studying for a postgrad too, so it's not the end of the world.. but it has made me think.

I wondered what mothers who are much further down the line think with the benefit of hindsight? Was that initial decision the right one for you, or was it influenced by newbabyitis?

Any time anyone uses after school care, lunch time care or tutoring, roundabouts where I live!

Many many jobs cannot be done part time as we all know. I would not accept for example a part time A level teacher for my chidlren or even class teacher in a private primary school (although I imagine the state sector has had to accept it in order to get teachers). Some jobs can easily be done by two people but I do find part timers I come up against are a huge nuisance. Often they aren't job sharing and you get an email back saying so and so is next in the office on Wednesdy and that's 6 days away when you really need your reply the next day. It can just about work in some sectors but not in others.

As morald says it is a political and moral issue when women duck out of work. It damages other women and until men are as likely to do it as women I think the more women who can stay in work the better otherwise we will lose gains which have been made.

But the interesting bit in th elast few posts as been the economics argument. In a capitalist society, a free market, decisions about employment rights are largely money driven. At the moment the nation has no spare money at all. You are more likely to leg Jane go who works 1.5 days a week and you could easily do without than Jenny who works very much full time and is key to your business. Who wouldn't and you'd be letting your shareholders down if you took wrong decisions.

The current proposal to increase the period of minimum service before unfair dismissal rights kick in is another step in the right direction but there's a long way to go to free things up to get the economy working again.

Most people on here if their husbands are made redundant will return to work full time if that is what feeds the family. The decisions made are usually economic.

Anyway the UK has a great Protestant work ethic. We've been known throughout the world for working hard and carrying on the face of adversity as we don't sit around idle in the sun or have long siestas.

If we make benefits claimants work for their benefits that will be a good thing all round. I can think of thousands of jobs they could be doing here for a start.

Yes Blueshoes, its funny how all the 'how could you leave your child with 'strangers' all day long?!' immediately disolves when the child reaches 4 and a half!
In fact, having known my childminder well from when my DD was 4 months old until she was 4 and a half, i was more concerned about leaving my DD with teachers whom (I wouldnt consider starngers because we had met on a number of occassions) I hadnt handpicked and I didnt really knwo well.

and how well do people know the nursery staff they are entrusting their babies to?

I've been involved in implementing the government's spending controls at my work, and if you were with us you would be in an ok position as a part timer, because the govt restrictions stop new recruitment and most use of agency staff, but the door is still open for part timers to increase hours. We are beginning to look to the possibility of part timers increasing hours a bit to plug some gaps that are opening up as people leave or retire.

I recognise that it may be different for your organisation though. And none of us know what the future holds in terms of future cuts.

Indeed blueshoes, and that is exactly what violethill's colleague has done, according to violethill.

But violethill seems to think her colleagues are schoolchildren...

bonsir thats fair enough I guess, but what tinky said was 'strangers doing the majority of the childcare...' I think Im fairly accurate in saying no one lets strangers do the majority of their childcare.

tinky -my point was that it is not acceptable for employers to pass over people who want to work flexibly.

The point is that they get away wiht doing so because it is a practice that gets moaned about but many people dont challenge it formally because that in itself is very dfficult. Hence the status quo remains.

Xenia - why would you not accept part time primary school teachers? The two very best classes (out of five parallel classes) in my DD's highly sought after school have two part-timers (and of course all the DC also have an English teacher, so three teachers in total, before music specialist etc) and it works like a dream - so much more stimulating for the DC. Only the parents who children struggle at school think that the single teacher classes are more desirable.

Teachers have been chosen for you by a headteacher and an interview panel of Governors who know best how a school works effectively.

don't know which area you work in Xenia, but my experience as a part timer is that as I am now very experienced in my area, and have remained updated whilst part time, and further developed my skills, that my skills are now in demand and being part time is not a barrier to employment. Anything but.

So part time can work.

That is why it is so important that people don't bitch about an employee standing up for thier own wishes and right nellie.

tinky probably not very well.. but they are not 'strangers' that was a shamefully emotive word used by you to elevate your own sense of self righteousness.

Anyway, your post argued "so it is acceptable for women or men who want to work flexible hours to be passed over by employers in favour of those without children (or those with children who are prepared to let a stranger do the majority of childcare)"

As though there was a group of people that either do the majority of childcare themselves, or get starngers to do it.

Many working women use childminders who to all intent and purposes are as good as family..

I think one needs to get over oneself.

'strangers' pah.

There are headteachers job sharing nowadays.

If you can afford it, good for you!
I don't believe for a second childminders are as good as family.

'Chosen for you', tinky. That is a great leap in logic to argue that teachers are not strangers. So 'you' being the hundreds of children that the governors and headteachers have prior to their starting school have never met ... strangers in other words.

I think you are clutching at straws to argue that teachers are not 'strangers'. Presumably by your argument the people who work at the breakfast and afterschool clubs are not strangers either, being specially chosen by the same people too.

In that you know them

nellieisstilltired, I agree that if part time works for your company then great.. This is usually at least 3 days if not 4.

Where I think that economics has to come before the 'rights' of people wish to work felxibly is when it doesnt benefit the busines to have (using Xenia's example) Jane go who works 1.5 days a week and you could easily do without than Jenny who works very much full time and is key to your business

i didn't say they weren't strangers, only that a reliable prosess is used to employ them.

When I think about it, the teachers who job share in my DD's school are the best and most experienced ones... who could get their requests met because the school didn't want to lose them!

I think my DD's teachers this year are both amazing role models for women - they are clever, funny, glamorous, expressive and socially at ease as well as being excellent teachers in every sense of the word. And they work part-time and put their all into their job two days a week and then disappear to do whatever they do (family and other things - very clearly!). A fabulous balance.

The headmistress also has two part-time deputies who teach half the time as well.

Tinky, whether a childminder is as good as family or not is a different arguement. You said 'strangers'
Childminders are not strangers.

And my childminder made a damnsight better job than I would do if I had my children all day every day! So please doesnt presume that the rest of the world matches your own experience.

cant resist throwing a spanner in, I;ve been 17hrs for the past 4yrs.

i am increasing though to 3 days as it will be better for me(and the finances)now that they are older.

Women can get pt flexible jobs if employers have no choice but to give it to them, because the alternative is that they will lose those women's skills entirely and it is too expensive and long a process to hire or train up another person. Or they are the best person for the job, a job which can be done flexibly.

So Nellie, you are doing the right thing to keep your skills up to date and make yourself attractive to employers.

What makes me smile is women with no current skills or anything to offer an employer over the next candidate competing with her for the same ft job expects to get pt conditions because she happened to do something similar 5 years ago.

You said they were as good as family though?
I think if your childminer did a better job than you could have done then you did the right thing for you but it wouldn't be my choice.

tinky19: "i didn't say they weren't strangers, only that a reliable prosess is used to employ them."

I guess working parents who used childcare just pulled their carers off the street, you funny person.

A reliable process was used to select teachers and before and after school carers and nurseries/nursery workers and nannies and childminders. If there was any unreliable process, it is as likely to happen in any of these categories as in any other.

Your logic is seriously flawed.