To think that it is the job of the lunchtime supervisors to clean the lunch hall, not year 6 pupils?

[tulpe]

DS came home from school today telling me that there has been a new rule implemented for lunchtimes. Apparently, each week two year 6 pupils will sweep and clean the floor of the hall at the end of lunchtime. Poor DS was almost sick after being one of the 2 chosen for this week.

I find it appalling actually, tbh. Not because I think "oh precious DS shouldn't be clearing up" but because it is hardly fair to expect 2 children to clean up after 100 children have eaten.

AIBU to think that this is a job for the lunchtime supervisors and not two 10/11 year old children?

AIBU to tell the headmistress that DS will not be doing this job this week nor for the remainder of his time in the school?

A rota involving one pair doing it one day, then a different pair the next day, and so on, would seem to make more sense.

I will be surprised if other parents don't complain. But then again others on here have said it isn't a problem.

It is the reason I came to seek counsel with the wise MN jury :) and I shall canvas further opinion at the school gates tomorrow morning.

Bunty that is a good point is there any thing about the need for play time in the school?
I remove my H&S hat and wonder if a parent came on here saying a child was being prevented from playing outside for another reason would we agree that they should loose their play time

I wouldn't expect children to do a very thorough job on this anyway, as it seems a daunting task.
So if there is PE, for example, in the hall after lunch, will the floor be even half-clean? Yuk

Beertricks - no sadly we only do negative reinforcement at this once lovely primary since the wicked witch of the west took over a few years ago, or so it seems.

sorry - last comment was very immature of me. Just comes from feeling like you are banging your head against a brick wall at times.

canyou - I agree that it is unreasonable to expect children to lose out on playtime to do this task and yes, having seen how DS "tidies" his room I would be very surprised if the job is done to H&S standards.

I mean in our nephews school rules book it states the importance for breaks and the need for fresh air [ie they chuck them out into the cols dress your child appropriately]. Do you have any such thing?
TBH I have no issue with personal responsibility but have issues with children being turned into cost efficient budgetary requirements

Beertricks - I think your idea is an excellent one and one which I would definitely support.

I feel that approaching problem with an alternative solution is much harder to argue against, no? Although, yeah, she probably will :o

Genius.

What a great way to implement the public sector budget cuts. They could get Year 6 to take turns at caretaking too, and gradually take on some teaching hours to give teacher some prep time.

Our children will grow up to be great little workers for Dave's Big Society, all used to doing jobs that people used to be paid for.

cat - there are only 12 children in Year 6 at our school. So they will be doing more than just one week's cleaning up over the course of the next 8 months left in school.

I can understand DS retching over sweeping up other people's crud because I think I would too (and before we get into "weak stomachs run in the family", I have today cleaned up 7 separate incidents of cat/dog arse spillage so am not at all precious about getting my hands dirty.....ooh, bad turn of phrase but ykwim!)

Yes, you are being precious. "Poor DS was almost sick" At food on the floor. Don't take him to a park or he might see dog shit and spontaneously combust.

Having the Year 6 children sweeping up sounds like a sensible way to have the oldest take responsibility for setting a good example. If they have to clean up they're a lot less likely to drop food.

Adults will obviously clean the floor afterwards, but within a couple of months there'll be a lot less to clean as Year 6 will start making sure that the younger children keep the food on their plates.

Well, I was a paid lunchroom supervisor, and had to clean. But I was PAID. I wouldn't approve, free child labour. Each child could be encouraged to clean up their own mess, period.

Perhaps they've been studying the Japanese education system? All primary school pupils in Japan clean their own classrooms and lunchrooms - including getting down on hands and knees and scrubbing floors (see <a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=factsanddetails.com/media/2/20090816-Cleaning%2520in%2520School.jpg&imgrefurl=factsanddetails.com/japan.php%3Fitemid%3D830%26catid%3D23%26subcatid%3D150&usg=__UXnPp3kC8muPFs0liGS42ujgbb4=&h=213&w=319&sz=20&hl=en&start=18&zoom=1&tbnid=Tws24NKE-OFSjM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djapan%2Bprimary%2Bschools%2Bcleaning%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3D715%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26biw%3D922%26bih%3D374%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C571&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=117&vpy=113&dur=888&hovh=103&hovw=154&tx=123&ty=78&ei=YWPPTLiZIJHQjAfIrNXWBw&oei=WmPPTOmnE4PusgaRzaX4AQ&esq=3&page=3&ndsp=10&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:18&biw=922&bih=374" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">here. I think the idea is to encourage feelings of responsibility and consideration for others (as well as save on cleaning budgets...).

I think just two doing it all week may not be the best way to go, but I wouldn't have a problem in principle with my DC being asked to help clean - in fact DS often used to volunteer to sweep the floor of the hall after the weekly tea and cake sale as it sometimes meant a mention in assembly for being helpful (and the big sweeper things are fun).

I really agree with this. It gives our older children a sense of responsibility. Responsibility is sooooo lacking at the moment.

Yes, your kid felt sick, but I bet 2 years before he was the one stamping on his sandwich.

They do it at my kids school too. Quite frankly, I agree with the whole thing. They will get their own backs by being 'prefects' in the playground and pick out the pigs who have rotten table manners.

oh yes we have some of those enormous brushes at church.

Between us (the 4 adults that run the after school service once a month - where food is served afterwards) we have 8 children - the fights for those 2 brushes is incredible - the pre-schoolers pair up to get one between then and then fight over it.

And the rest is a pure girl/boy fight thing going on.

As for the OP - no it wouldn't bother me.

I expect it's probably only a cursery "sweep" and then the lunchtime supervisors finish it off properly once they're gone.

i think it's fine.

but then i also make the brownies/ guides/ cubs/ beavers sweep up, empty the bins, and bang the mats outside as well.

they are old enough to sweep lunch off the floor without barfing, to be frank.

i suspect mamo is right and they sweep over it and then disappear outside to play, leaving the paid staff to finish up.

there are (child) monitors for everything at the dc's school. i think two yr 6s are on rota to man the telephones when the secretary is on her break as well.

i used to love being the library moniotr over lunchtime.

even at dd2's nursery they had to help wipe the tables ffs.

precious, much?

haha Madwoman - I've not yet had my coffee

I read your second line as
"bang their mates outside as well"

I was think WTF!!!

MrsCrafty - to my knowledge, DS has never stamped on a sandwich. I am a bit at your judgey pants comments on a child you have never met.

TBH, perhaps I am too much of a stickler for table manners but it always surprises me how much mess other kids make when they come for tea. I'm not saying my DCs are perfect, by any stretch but they don't talk with their mouths full (bleurgh) and spit crumbs all over the place and if they drop something on the floor they are told to pick it up (obvs not small crumbs etc). They don't have to be repeatedly told to sit down, or sit properly. They just do because they have always had to.

So it is with the last para in mind that I object to my kids having to clean up after others, together with my previous comments.

madwoman - think there is a huge difference between "sit here and be responsible for phones/library" and "here, take this broom and clean up the mess 98 other kids have just made"

It isn't cleaning up per se that I object to. As we discussed earlier - making each table responsible is a good way to encourage social responsibility and has a more direct impact in terms of peer pressure than "ok off you all pop to play and these kids will clean up your mess"

It wouldn't have bothered me if my DC had to do this in year 6.
Mine all had to take turns helping YR & Y1 put their out door shoes on at break and lunch.

Also if they go on cub camps or residential trips DC of this age are expected to clear tables, wash up, and do other chores.

I think it sounds like a good system, it teaches the older children to take responsibility and they will no doubt encourage the younger children not to make a mess in the first place.

It may well be that the move came due to staff cuts, I know in my DC's school they had to make two lunchtime supervisors redundant before the summer due to budget cuts. But this doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing.

We (PTA) held a Halloween disco at school last weekend. It included cake decorating, hot dogs and a chocolate fountain with fruit dipped in, so the floor was a mess by the end of the 2hrs. The older kids loved using the big brush to help clear up, and I didn't notice any of them gagging!