to be really upset at being treated like this by a company??

[reallyquiteshocked]

I've just been 'sacked' as a customer by a company. And I really genuinely don't believe I deserve it.

I have 2 dcs and I recently went back to work after dd1, this time partially using a nanny, simply because my husband is now a student and it works out a bit easier with no difference in cost for 2. I've never had a nanny before so am starting to get my head around the whole payroll, tax thing.
A friend recommended Nannywage plc who were lovely on the phone, very patiently explaining the different options we had to pay the nanny who will only be working part time in term time.

However my first payslip came with an amount less than I expected on it. I paid the nanny the (higher) amount I thought it should have been and emailed Nannywage to query it. I am genuinely upset by the sort of language they've used. I was really just trying to work out why it was that amount, and was happy to be told my calculations were wrong. This was only yesterday and today I received this mail saying they were dumping me and that I disrespected their staff! I have been polite and courteous throughout and really did not think my emails came across like that. I could paste them here.
The thing is I actually think their calculations are still wrong but I don't even have an opportunity to correct them now!

Can i just ask... is the nanny paid a flat monthly wage throughout the year in order to retain her services instead of being paid monthly for work actually done?

It's just i've read your explanations several times and i'm still a bit

I think the payroll company are assuming you're paying monthly wages for work actually done, in which case she wouldn't be paid in summer when she's not working.

I have to say it's very confusingly put by both sides and i only cottoned on to what you were trying to say as i do wages and payroll for a local childcare company and they pay in the same way, overtime and sick days are calculated once a term and wages adjusted for that week, all other weeks throughout the year they receive a flat rate.

their figures are correct but their manner is definitley not!! so what if it took a bit of explaining teh first month? you would have understood it by next month so no extra effort on their part past the initial payslip. surely tehy expect teething propblems with new clients?

They have averaged it: and then paid part of the average for a short month. At the end of the contract they will pay part of the average for the short month too.

That's it, isn't it? You thought they'd pay from the 7th to the 6th : they are doing it from the 7th to the 30th but still applying the average. ie they have pro-rata-ed the average down by 21/30.

So they have paid 21/30 of 460 -- am I right?

Summer - I thought I'd average it out, that way the nanny is receiving income over e.g. the summer holidays even tho she is not working for us then just so she has an income. I could hace done it the other way (paying for weeks worked) and she wasn't fussed - I wish I had now!

booo - yes i'd have thought so too.

Apple - I think you're right, but how does she ever catch up? It's not a fixed term contract or anything hence my

She doesn't need to catch up. She's been paid for 21 days in Sept and will be paid for the full month in Oct and so on.

The problem is that you will have to explain it to her and to do so you'll need to understand it yourself I guess.

She is not being paid month to month. She hasn't done seven days work that she hasn't been paid for.

I think Appletrees is right, as they're dealing with the payroll element of it which is very automated and tax week based they can't pay for a week she wasn't working.

In hindsight you should have told them she started on the 7th and they would just have calculated it like that, all be it monthly amounts would probably fluctuate anyway as some are 4 and some are 5 weeks.

The computer software used for payrolls is very rigid and doesn't deal well with any funny stuff, it works week to week on a tax week basis and there's no room for 'alternate' arrangements to be inputted.

...surely it should be your nanny who is questioning pay, not you?

She will be paid for that seven days at the end of October. If she does a short month at the end, she will be paid for that short month.

...should have just told them she started on the 1st...

sorry, got distracted by chocolate brownies

Actually do you know what -- I'm not sure they are right. If they are paying part of the average for a short month, they SHOULD be paying middle of month to middle of month: or it doesn't work out.

We could do the sums and work it out.

So she starts on the 7th Sept earning 640 a month (average 460 a month).

Say she finishes on 6th Sept 2011.

First month she gets paid 21/30 x 460.
Last month she gets paid 7/30 x 460.

But if she finishes on the 16 Sept 2011 she gets paid 16/30 x 460.. it doesn't work out.

Right. They must not be averaging out per month but per day. That's how they do it. It's not a monthly average but a daily average they must be using.

I think you were perfectly sensible to query this and they should be able to explain their systems.

All they said in effect was, repeatedly, it's a short month, it's a short month.

They should have said, we average the pay out daily and work month end to month end.

I think they have prorata'd 460 by the number of weeks she worked in Oct, but that's not right as 460 is already an averaged out amount from a year's salary and if she doesn't get exactly 12 times 460 then she loses out. Least that's how I'm thinking of it...

you're right.

There seems to be a lack of ability at their end to comprehend what you're telling them about the flat rate pay

I think their email is VERY rude and unprofessional. I'd go elsewhere...

We have only attempted to explain our calculations based on the fact that monthly payroll is processed to the last Friday of each month.

They are running your payroll for you. So they should be running it at a time suitable for you... not just on the last Friday of each month.

They don't seem to understand how you want your employee paid. That is the impression I am getting. They don't want to do it... as it's maybe more trouble than other payroll runs - so they are cancelling your subscription and refunding.

So move along to another company and explain to them how you want them to run your payroll. Try www.payefornannies.co.uk for example. Maybe they can do the payroll as you require it.

Some things to think about though... you have agreed a NET wage. That causes problems. Really do consider re-negotiating the contract with your nanny such that it has a Gross pay figure. You can SELL this idea to your nanny by saying that in April 2011 the personal tax allowance is going up... so with a gross salary they get a bit more money, with NET you get to keep the increase!

Gross pay makes no difference to you, as you are always paying the Gross wage, plus Employers NI. It however makes it easier to calculate the payslip, so would give you the option at a later time of not using a payroll company at all, instead using the HMRC website.

You could agree a fixed Gross pay per month - no problem at all. Make sure the payroll company knows it's not based on hours worked... so they don't put any hours at all on the payslip... just put the monthly pay figure - regardless of how long the month is in worked days/hours.

Oh another thing... if the payroll company is only running payroll on the last Friday of the month, chances are that payment to the nanny will be LATE on occasion. Such as this month... last Friday of Oct is 29th. Pay needs to be nannies bank account by 31st which is a non-banking day. So if you are lucky, you get the payslip details on 29th, you immediately do a bank transfer using BACS and it goes into the nannies account the same day. Bit risky though... better if the payroll is done mid-month, you then get the paperwork well in time for transferring the money to the nanny.

My payslip from PayeforNannies is dated 31/Oct. I got it end of last week, so my boss must have got it maybe on the 18th or there about. So it was prepared well before I had actually done the work.

Just trying to establish what payroll software the company uses... and I've come across something that I feel needs to be pointed out.

The company concerned in this case is Nanny Wage Ltd www.nannywageltd.co.uk/
Which is NOT the same as www.nannywage.co.uk

I'm surprised by their tone and reaction to your emails. 3 emails from you that were polite but wanting a clear answer - surely they understand that part of their ongoing business costs is to absorb the time and effort of customer service? It's not like you were raising this issue far and beyond what is reasonable - you didn't get a satisfactory answer to your rather reasonable emails.

I'm surprised by them, certainly. But you might have had a lucky escape - if they act like this to reasonable emails, can you imagine if you actually had a dispute? They've done you a favour by "sacking" you.

Miss P works 2 days per week at £80 per day but for only 31 weeks of the year.

No retainer fee for the other weeks? I assume the agreement is for no retainer.

Holiday entitlement is 31/52 x 11.2 days = 7 days.

5.6 weeks annual entitlement for a full-time employee.

To keep it simple, I'll say the nanny works 10 hours per day (need to calculate holiday in hours as it is atypical).

So 20 hours x 31 weeks = 620 hours

620 / 46.4 (52 weeks - 5.6 weeks) = 13.36

Therefore Holiday entitlement = 5.6 x 13.36 = 74.82 hours. Which if 10 hour days = 7.482 days, rounding up to give 7.5 days.

This calculation assumes that holiday CANNOT be taken during term-time, only during school holiday periods.

That is how I would calculate it. It is hard to calculate term-time only workers holiday entitlement. Just looked on Direct.gov and they have removed details of how to calculate it, due to it undergoing revision.

So could be argued that there is another £40 of holiday pay due. It depends how it is calculated.

That however isn't the issue being discussed on this thread - though maybe something to look at.

So... what you have used is:
31 wks x £160 = £4960
Holiday pay - 7x 80 = £560
4960 + 560 = £5520
£5520 / 12 = £460

So Annual Gross (assuming BR tax code) would be £7089. Employers NI £176 calculator.kistax.com/

You asked the payroll company to operate Monthly Pay and that you wanted M1..M12 to all be the same in terms of nannies NET pay.
I would expect a payroll company to be able to do that. It's not something that you would be able to do yourself, in my view as doing Net to Gross gets a bit complex.

The payroll company seems to have done Weekly pay, not Monthly. So to me it looks as though they didn't do as you had asked... which was to operate Monthly payroll.

So I would wonder if they are ditching you as a client because you want them to operate Monthly pay, where as they operate Weekly pay. Is that your feeling as well?

Earlier I wrote:
"You can SELL this idea to your nanny by saying that in April 2011 the personal tax allowance is going up... so with a gross salary they get a bit more money, with NET you get to keep the increase!"

Alas given the low amount involved and that the tax code being used may well be BR. I don't now think it will make a difference (though will in their other job). I assume they have another job, as your job is only 2 days per week. However it is always best to do pay as Gross, as then you can use HMRC lookup tables and website to do the calculations yourself if you need to. Also means the nanny can compare salary with other jobs - as all other jobs (I don't know of any which are paid Net) are paid Gross.

they are a bit ott. i'd also be upset.

To be perfectly honest, I think that you over-reacted a bit in this email
"Dear Nannywage,

I was quite distressed by the tone of your last email as I was merely seeking to understand the calculation, not trying to tell you that your calculations were 'wrong'.
I am surprised as my contact with you by phone has previously been very helpful and friendly. I only wanted to provide you with my calculations so you could see how I had worked this out and point out any mistake, not to put you to more 'time and trouble'."

I can't quite see why you emailed them in those terms, their email was to the point, but it's a factual email, no need for any more than that.

Now though I think you should quit worrying about the whole thing and move on.

I run payroll for a couple of clients, and with both of them we've had ongoing "discussions" re exactly how they want their staff paid, when they want the payslips, how we calcualate mid-month starts adn so on. I factor in to my initial quote that I'll have to spend time making adjustments, and explaining to the client why the figures are as they are. That's part of the work as well, not just clicking "produce payslips" and emailing them off.