To think you don't need to be particularly bright to be an investment banker?

[Cortina]

In other words if you wanted to be an investment banker then in the past hard work, diligence and decent A levels and Uni course could almost guarantee a career in the industry?

A brother of an old college friend has just bought a home counties house for 5 million cash. It was always his life plan to earn big bucks and he has realised his dream. Not born with a silver spoon but very hard working, serious and dedicated. Not short on self belief and confidence too it has to be said.

Thing is I know of quite a few like this, many not quite so successful but they earn around the 250k basic sort of mark I believe.

I suppose what I am saying that if you are hard working enough and want to earn big money then you can target a career in an industry that will likely give you large financial rewards.

I'd always thought that you had to be some sort of 'extraordinary' person in terms of personal 'gifts' and 'abilities' if that makes sense?

Nope. All the boys who were thick at school ended up as Investment bankers. Not even sure if they that driven, just short of ideas and like money.

(went to v. posh school!)

Depends on what you mean by 'bright'. I would say it is all about talking the talk and risk taking.

Most really 'bright' people I know earn peanuts because they tend to care about things other than money!!

Surely these days you'd be fired if you couldn't cut the mustard? The old boy network is dying or certainly not as strong as it was.

That said I've met a few hedgefund guys before and have been bemused that they've been so successful.

Wasn't there a perception 1percent though that you have to be 'exceptional' in some sense to go into investment banking?

But being 'bright' isn't the only important thing. You can be academically very bright and still not have the skillset for loads of white-collar jobs.

I think it depends what investment bank you work for - some have real smells under their noses ... and believe they are doing God's work.

Other associates in the banking field (analysts/ head of desks) are very bright, educated people who have had a career outside of banking and have brought this knowledge to the banking arena.

Those looking after other's investments are another story altogether

I disagree. I've worked in hedge funds and all the traders I knew were very bright. Very quick thinkers and extremely driven.

There are different types of bankers. Some are traders, some are just sales, some do advisory work - how to sell a company, how to float on stock exchange, how to fight off a bid from someone else.

Sales guys can be pretty dumb - they need to convince someone to do a deal and are sometimes no better than an estate agent and about as professional/loyal. Most don't care about the rights or wrongs of a deal but luckily they don't actually have any money of their own to spend! They have to convince someone with a 'book' to get involved (usually someone in trading).

Traders much much brighter (in general)- you can see them doing crazy maths in their head. It's scary and impressive and some are shit hot.

You also get structurers who think up schemes and create products/structures, either for the bank or a client or to off load or take on risk - again, generally pretty bright and know alot of accounting plus law plus regulatory plus industry info.

So what type of banker are you talking about? Which are the stupid ones? I think most of the loud mouth bankers tend to fall into the sales category from experience.

In my experience there are actually few jobs where you need to be super bright.

Other skill sets are far more important.

YANBU. The people I knew at college who went into banking weren't intellectually anything special, they just wanted to earn loads of money and were prepared to work silly hours to get it.

I think that's true, Lit. Medicine's a really obvious one - I don't understand why people think doctors must be amazingly super-bright, I am far more impressed by their other, non-academic skills.

The investment bankers I know are extraordinarily bright (if that means academic and intelligent).

They are the type of people that could have done whatever job they had wanted but are maths whiz's so the financial sector was an obvious choice.

Well, there are very few jobs that I've come across where I've thought I couldn't do it because I'm just not clever enough to do it.

More that I think I'm just not cut out for it. Or would never have the skill set. Or it just would not interest me etc.

In my experience, all those who have actually done well in banking (and I'm assuming £1m + packages) tend to be very bright.

littlered because compared to the majority of the population doctors are generally "super bright". Obviously they have other skills which tend to sort the good drs from the excellent but tI think it is disingenuous to argue that generally drs are not very bright.

"Well, there are very few jobs that I've come across where I've thought I couldn't do it because I'm just not clever enough to do it."

In that case litchick you are either very bright...or extraordinarily stupid

Look at the nobs on The Apprentice. Bullshitters and blaggers, the lot of 'em. And thick. Cut from the same cloth.

I honestly can't believe all investment bankers 'could have done whatever job they wanted'. I don't think so many people could be so unusually multi-talented.

OH is an investment banker and everyone on his floor, except him, have a degree and about 10% went to private school. The only one that is super intelligent on his floor is him and his brains and obvious talent have shone through despite his lack of qualifications.

Bankers are all tarred with the same brush. There are so many strands in investment banking and many which deal with non-risk. It was the deregulation that caused all the problems because the sales teams were given the powers to do what they wanted whilst Compliance and other area in banking, who were being ignored, were waiting for the time bomb to go off.

Well, I guess it depends how you define 'super bright' nancy. But I know loads of people who have excelled academically over the doctors I know. It's not rare. And yet, I don't believe many of those people could have become doctors.

My mate is halfway through medical school. There is no way I could do what he does, and it's because he is massively more intelligent than me.

nancy, I'm neither. I've worked in the city, I've been a lawyer, I've worked on a newspaper, I've written books and dramas.

None of it was rocket science - just took a certain type of personality and skill set.

Fake Plastic Trees - those I know on the 1m packages plus in banking are those who got generally got 2:1s in Economics, History, Law or similar from Russell Group type Unis in the early 90s. Went on to do MBAs afterwards etc.

How many in high street banks have similar entry level quals I wonder? I know of some who have that just didn't 'believe' they were exceptional enough to aim for something other than Nat West in the High St.

littlered I was referring specifically to the investment bankers I know - all of them could have done pretty much whatever they chose.

They may not have excelled at medicine/law whatever other path they might have picked but I have no doubt they could have obtained the requisite qualifications to persue many alternative careers.

And I agree it depends how you define super bright - that is why I compared them to the majority of the population rather than those that have also excelled.

Wow. They must be impressive people, nancy.

I would love to know how the average medic's qualifications compare to the rest of the country. I know you used to need 3As at A level but so many people get that now, I guess it's not so special so there must be other things they use to decide. My mate who's doing medicine has no A-levels in sciences or maths, and he didn't do GCSE biology (or chemistry, I forget) either. He caught them up in a special test paper before he applied. It really made me aware how academic intelligence really isn't too relevant to what he does.

What FreeButton said.