To be claiming some benefits.....

[CardyMow]

When DP works FT? DP earns £16K before tax. We get : £140 a week Child tax credits. £76 a week Working tax credit. £46 a week child benefit. £ 122 a week Housing benefit. We have 3 dc. I am a SAHM because no-one will emloy me due to my epilepsy, but I no longer get any disability benefits in respect of this. What I can't work out from all the hoo-ha on MN lately about benefits 'scroungers' is whether DP and I are unreasonable to claim what's available?

Soooo. Are we benefits scroungers because we get £384 a week in benefits. Or are we not benefits scroungers because DP works FT and pays tax? Where does the collective wisdom of MN stand on that?

[granted]

Well, everyone has the right to breed.

But the reality is that only the rich - or those on benefits - the have the right to eat.

[broughthimroundtotheidea]

No I don't mean only the rich have the right to breed, take for example the op's situation, 3 children already, family income supplementented by wtc tc and housing benefit. Should they get an increase in benefits if they choose to have another child?

[granted]

Tricky one - in terms of incentives,no they clearly shouldn't - in terms of 'choosing' - not everyone chooses, sometimesit just happens, and is it then fair to punish the child?

Fact is, the govt cares not for 'should' they're going to cut benefits whether or not they should...

[granted]

Am I right that the OP is expecting another? - as jusy seen on another thread?

If so, her earnings through benefits will soon shoot up way over what us poor higher-rate taxpeyers could dream of earning.

[broughthimroundtotheidea]

Indeed, and that is not the system that is flawed, it is abuse of it. You are right in what you say that not everyone chooses and sometimes things just happen, but I thoroughly believe less would "just happen" if the cut off for increasing benefits was capped at 2 children from now on. I am not saying that in the case of families that are already larger than that their money should go down, as, as you rightly say that would harm the child but from now on if you choose to have more than 2 children they need to take into account that they would not get an increase in money. I made sure we didn't try for more children when we were in a redundancy situation.

[granted]

Well, that is what is happening in terms of the 26K cap.

I agree - there is one law for those who pay their own way and one for those who rely on benefits. Those of uswho pay our own way have to live where we can afford - none of the hoohah about thosewho work being 'socially cleansed' from London as there is currently about those who depend on LHA. Our children have no minimum room numbers or sizes. And we can only have as many childen as we can afford - or accept that all of our quality of life goes down if we have more.

That seems wrong to me. If we accept that all children have the same rights, then we should top up everyone's income to live where they choose, pay for everyone to have unlimited children, in suficiently large accomodation.

But of course the country would be broke in 5 minutes.

[HappyMummyOfOne]

"Here is another question to throw into the pot...........what would everyones opinion be if the op had another child when already needing benefits to pay for the ones she currently has?....discuss"

It would be wrong but thousands do it. Whilst some families have to ensure that they can afford a child/children, have the room etc other families dont give it a second thought and know that the state will increase their benefits due to an extra child.

[newwave]

The Tories will always denigrate the poor and needy, they always have and always will. Even looking at Osborne you are aware that he does not have a decent bone in his body.

As for the LD puppets, it makes me feel like vomiting that i vote for those back stabbing scum bags, I expect the Tories to screw all but the rich but not the LD's.

[ccpccp]

Getting your benes cut, newwave?

[huddspur]

"Here is another question to throw into the pot...........what would everyones opinion be if the op had another child when already needing benefits to pay for the ones she currently has?....discuss"

This would be very wrong in my opinion, to have another child knowing already that you are dependent on the state is just taking everyone else for a ride.

I do think some people are being very harsh on the OP epilepsy can be extremely debilitating.

[huddspur]

I don't think that Riven but the OP already has children that she knows she will have to rely on welfare to pay for so having more would be irresponsible IMO.

[granted]

Agree, Riven - "vile thread" - no idea why the OP felt the need to start it.

[granted]

"by your reckoning then, someone who can never work shouldn't have children? Bit harsh that."

The OP already has 3 children - I'm not aware of anyone who has objected to this. So her not having children at all isn't the issue. The reality is that life is harsh for those not on benefits too - we all have to cut our coat according to our cloth, sadly.

I'd love to live in a society where every woman could have as many cildren as they wanted and be paid by the state to look after them until they were of school age. I think that would be ideal.

BUT it's not going to happen any time soon. With the economic situtation as it is.

That being the case, we have to decide whether it's fair that taxpayers who work and maybe don't feel they can afford more than 1 child, say, or no children, should have to pay for the OP to have 4? Isn't that rather harsh on them?

[granted]

No, I'm not. I work far too hard!
Of course I'm envious of those who get what I have but don't work.

But I wouldn'y have started a thread on the subject - the OP, however, did - because she wasn't happy with what she was getting, in terms of respect. Or cash.

If the OP is going to see fit to complain on a public forum that her tiny benefits won't even buy her a holiday, she has to expect to be picked up on that by others whose 'huge' earnings are identical to hers in cash terms and who manage to have a holiday out of it.

I'm not the one who started a thread to complain I was hard-done by, remember.

[broughthimroundtotheidea]

I am not envious ! I have self respect and the knowledge that everything myself and my family has is what we have earned.

[granted]

Well, you're a better woman than I am then. :)

When it's 11 at night and my OH is asking me to stop working so he can ge to sleep, night after night, and when I've just spent all half-term working and not with my dcs, because we need the cash, then yes, I admit to envy of those who don't hav to work to keep their head above water. Esp when paid for out of my taxes.

Maybe that makes me a deeply bad person. Or maybe just human. And very, very tired.

[newwave]

ccpccp,

Getting your benes cut, newwave?

Not at all as I dont get any, kids to old and and my DP and I earn to much and the mortgage is paid off. Other than the VAT the cuts will not affect my family greatly however unlike some others I have a modicum of sympathy and concern for the needy and poor who will have their lived made even harder by the Tory scumbags.

Then again some posters dont understand what empathy means do they ccpccp.

[CardyMow]

So I don't want to work, and motherhood is no greater barrier than Epilepsy? After having my 3rd dc, I went back to FT work when he was 8 weeks old. I lost that job once I was diagnosed with Epilepsy as my job was one that I am barred from BY LAW if I have had even ONE seizure after the age of 5 yrs old! Never mind 50-odd seizures a year. I have also combined a PT job fitting it in around my DP's work shifts in the past - until the shop closed down 3 yrs ago. In the past 3 yrs, I have applied for over 200 jobs. Because (until Oct 1st this yr) I had to by law disclose that I had epilepsy, I didn't even get invited for ONE interview.

I think you can see by that that Epilepsy is a MUCH greater barrier to employment than motherhood. Now that I don't have to declare my epilepsy, I might stand a chance of getting a job.

Having another baby was NOT a choice. I have been asking to be sterilised since I was diagnosed with Epilepsy, but my PCT deemed that I was too young and refused me. Despite the fact that my epilepsy medication means that at best any hormonal contraception is only 85% effective. I have always had VERY strong views on abortion, it just wouldn't be something I could do, to me it is murder.

I have to say that NO I do not have an 'expensive cigarette or alcohol addiction'. I gave up smoking, and strangely enough, alcohol and epilepsy medications do not mix well, so I am teetotal! I also have 2 out of 3 of my dc with additional needs, my youngest has 2 different muscle problems, AND chronic asthma, and his school is 1.9 miles away. I have to pay bus fares to get him to school as he is physically unable to walk that distance. That alone costs me £44 a week, so no we can't afford a bloody holiday!

I wasn't posting this thread to 'crow'about my income, I was being honest as I feel that some of the sentiments on MN at the moment are, to be frank, pretty disgusting when it comes to people that claim any form of benefits. I was really asking where all the empathy had disappeared to on MN.

And I hasten to add, if I hadn't been diagnosed with epilepsy, then right now WE would be in the situation where I would be a HRT payer, DP wouldn't, and we would have lost our cb. If I was still in that position then I would feel a little aggrieved, but we would have managed OK without it (just). Right now, without the tax credits, and the housing benefits, we would a) be homeless as we wouldn't even be able to afford to rent a bedsit on DP's income alone, and b) wouldn't be able to afford to get the dc to school because I can't magic £44 a week out of thin air.

[ccpccp]

I have concern for taxpayers newwave, and they are being taken for fools. This gives me the moral high ground.

The left are going to need better arguments than 'Tories are scum' to win this one I think.